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02:25:54  <ArxPoetica1>PEOPLE OF THE WORLD
02:26:05  <ArxPoetica1>Hey. mdedetrich!
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02:26:11  <ArxPoetica1>I thought maybe you'd quit us.
02:26:14  <mdedetrich>ow
02:26:21  <ArxPoetica1>ha sorry
02:26:35  <mdedetrich>my mac recently broke down
02:26:38  <mdedetrich>hence my absence
02:26:39  <ArxPoetica1>:(
02:26:46  <ArxPoetica1>that's terrible
02:27:19  <ArxPoetica1>brb
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02:40:44  <ArxPoetica>So mdedetrich...
02:40:54  <ArxPoetica>I've been asking this of a lot of folks.
02:41:03  <mdedetrich>ya
02:41:10  <ArxPoetica>I'm curious what you use for production. (servers? CDNs?)
02:41:21  <ArxPoetica>As in which service.
02:41:36  <mdedetrich>nodejitsu for servers
02:41:42  <mdedetrich>rackspace for cd (cloudfiles)
02:41:45  <mdedetrich>*cdn
02:42:08  <ArxPoetica>Oh that's right, you're all in nodejitsu
02:42:11  <ArxPoetica>*in on
02:42:22  <ArxPoetica>Have you found rackspace to be very costly
02:42:23  <ArxPoetica>?
02:42:51  <mdedetrich>let me check my costs
02:43:00  <mdedetrich>for trivial cases its like 5 bucks a month
02:43:06  <mdedetrich>and that also includes using it as online storage for photos
02:43:09  <mdedetrich>its based on bandwidth
02:43:24  <ArxPoetica>right
02:43:26  <ArxPoetica>scalable
02:43:28  <ArxPoetica>cloud
02:43:34  <mdedetrich>the main reason I use rackspace
02:43:37  <ArxPoetica>do you have any video?
02:43:44  <mdedetrich>is akamai is the best cloud
02:43:53  <mdedetrich>i mean akamai has the best cdn
02:44:03  <ArxPoetica>I've heard about akamai
02:44:11  <ArxPoetica>all the big players use it
02:44:14  <mdedetrich>im in australia for example, and their CDN reaches sydney as well
02:44:20  <ArxPoetica>gotcha
02:44:22  <mdedetrich>yeah rackspace partnered with akamai for CDN
02:45:18  <mdedetrich>actually the CDN is costing 20 cents a month
02:45:26  <ArxPoetica>interesting
02:45:28  <mdedetrich>for me at least
02:45:38  <mdedetrich>but then again, for static files
02:45:41  <mdedetrich>its cached
02:45:42  <ArxPoetica>right
02:45:44  <mdedetrich>for like 20 years
02:45:47  <mdedetrich>or w/e
02:46:06  <mdedetrich>in other words, until you get real usage pattern, it costs nothing
02:46:15  <mdedetrich>but I would also get a manged service when the site goes into production
02:46:18  <mdedetrich>that costs 100 a month though
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03:54:48  <ArxPoetica>Hey all.
03:55:05  <ArxPoetica>Opinion on using REDIS or Mongo for a certain activity...
03:55:41  <mdedetrich>use redis for sessions
03:55:44  <mdedetrich>and use mongo as a database
03:56:02  <ArxPoetica>ha ;)
03:56:07  <mdedetrich>redis has slightly better performance than monbodb, but has a terrible query syntax
03:56:14  <ArxPoetica>just a sec I'll show you the particular use case.
03:56:16  <mdedetrich>mongodb's query syntax is very robust
03:56:28  <ArxPoetica>I have it on github — just pulling it up.
03:57:27  <ArxPoetica>https://github.com/engagementgamelab/CivicSeed/blob/master/server/rpc/game/npc.js
03:57:30  <ArxPoetica>okay, this file
03:57:47  <ArxPoetica>https://github.com/engagementgamelab/CivicSeed/blob/master/server/rpc/game/npc.js#L29-L44
03:57:50  <ArxPoetica>these lines
03:58:16  <mdedetrich>if npc means non playable character
03:58:19  <mdedetrich>then use mongodb
03:58:25  <mdedetrich>as I said, if you need a database, use mongodb
03:58:25  <ArxPoetica>yeah that's what it means
03:58:29  <ArxPoetica>:)
03:58:39  <mdedetrich>you are doing queries and such
03:58:42  <ArxPoetica>right
03:58:43  <mdedetrich>so use mongodb
03:59:03  <mdedetrich>if you are interested, i use mongohq for database storage
03:59:06  <ArxPoetica>but for a unique user and the user's data, redis probably makes the most sense
03:59:12  <mdedetrich>they have a sandbox account which is free
03:59:15  <ArxPoetica>mongohq, eh?
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03:59:23  <ArxPoetica>oh we've got mongo through nodejitsu
03:59:30  <mdedetrich>ArxPoetica: yes, for sessions, use redis
03:59:44  <mdedetrich>well actually I have mongohq as a completely seperate app for production
03:59:52  <ArxPoetica>Gotcha.
03:59:58  <mdedetrich>but nodejitsu has a handy command to make a mongo database sandbox
04:00:11  <mdedetrich>which is free (use for dev, not production)
04:00:26  <ArxPoetica>dev, really? it's not production friendly?
04:00:31  <ArxPoetica>hmmm...
04:00:34  <ArxPoetica>that's news :P
04:00:35  <mdedetrich>the sandbox no
04:00:51  <mdedetrich>if you want production databases, you should pay for the higher tier
04:01:25  <mdedetrich>and you can go really crazy with mongodb
04:01:30  <mdedetrich>like paying 7k a month for a db
04:01:37  <mdedetrich>I mean mongohq sorry
04:02:00  <ArxPoetica>rmmm
04:02:12  <ArxPoetica>this is news to me
04:02:14  <mdedetrich>but the basic one for 20 bucks a month
04:02:19  <ArxPoetica>so the ones they offer are just sandboxes
04:02:19  <mdedetrich>should be fine
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04:02:31  <mdedetrich>nodejitsu just offers sandboxes
04:02:38  <mdedetrich>you can get whatever you want from the actual mongohq site
04:03:02  <mdedetrich>https://www.mongohq.com/pricing
04:04:20  <mdedetrich>Also I use mongoskin as the library for interfacing with mongohq
04:04:57  <ArxPoetica>mongoskin eh
04:05:07  <ArxPoetica>what do you think of mongoose?
04:06:11  <mdedetrich>mongoose attempts to replicate relation like SQL structure ontop of mongodb
04:06:40  <mdedetrich>mongoskin is a compromise, its more document orientated (instead of relation) however it does allow you to bind helper functions to databases
04:06:43  <mdedetrich>like an ORM
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04:07:35  <ArxPoetica>I need a data guy! :P
04:07:41  <ArxPoetica>(Getting by for now.)
04:08:05  <mdedetrich>what you mean by data guy?
04:08:10  <ArxPoetica>DB guy
04:08:21  <mdedetrich>eh its something you should learn yourself
04:08:25  <mdedetrich>look the honest difference is
04:08:26  <ArxPoetica>ORM doesn't really mean much to me, unfortunately. :P
04:08:35  <mdedetrich>mongoose is a relation system built ontop of mongodb
04:08:41  <mdedetrich>Object Relational Model = ORM
04:08:45  <ArxPoetica>like SQL
04:08:49  <mdedetrich>yes
04:08:57  <ArxPoetica>got it
04:09:04  <mdedetrich>where as mongoskin is a very light wrapper that allows you to bind helper functions on documents
04:09:21  <mdedetrich>by design, mongodb is document related, you are expected to do relations manually (there is no strict enforcing of them)
04:09:27  <ArxPoetica>ah
04:09:31  <ArxPoetica>ahhhhh
04:09:36  <ArxPoetica>suddenly coming together.
04:09:59  <mdedetrich>of course there is nothing stopping you from doing a relational wrapper ontop of mongodb, it is just client side
04:10:00  <ArxPoetica>yeah. like the whole schema thing of mongoose — it's just relation enforcement
04:10:04  <mdedetrich>and tahts what mongoose thing
04:10:10  <mdedetrich>*what mongoose is
04:10:27  <mdedetrich>note that using something like mongoskin does give you more control, which also means more performance
04:10:37  <ArxPoetica>That was my next question.
04:10:43  <mdedetrich>anyways im getting a burito, brb
04:10:48  <ArxPoetica>lol
04:22:52  <strikeout>does anybody have a sample rest/crud RPC responder which i can use for mongoose?
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04:33:34  <mdedetrich>im back
04:41:31  <mdedetrich>strikeout: what are you looking for exactly?
04:48:23  <strikeout>hmm, a kinda general implementation that mimics a rest interface via websockets
04:48:38  <mdedetrich>you mean a library or something
04:49:02  <strikeout>yeah, or an example I can rip stuff out of
04:49:55  <strikeout>or do you think it makes more sense defining all the methods for a couple of mongoose models by hand in the roc responders?
04:52:15  <ArxPoetica>sup strikeout
04:52:25  <strikeout>hey arx
04:52:49  <ArxPoetica>so what are you looking for exactly? a little confused.
04:55:43  <strikeout>basically https://gist.github.com/3819468 this for the RPC'calls
04:56:20  <strikeout>but I guess I can just replace the .get .put .post stuff with socket events
04:56:55  <mdedetrich>if you are doing rest stuff through websockets
04:57:01  <mdedetrich>you are doing it wrong
04:57:13  <mdedetrich>and you should probably just use rest
04:58:19  <strikeout>nonoo, I mean it more in the sense of "providing a fluent interface to my mongo" via the RPC
04:58:46  <strikeout>that rest stuff was just an example, for the default methods like find, insert etc
05:01:31  <strikeout>phrasing it differently: whats the coolest way to provide a frontend (like ember with ember-data) a way to talk to my mongodb via the rpc
05:07:47  <ArxPoetica>strikeout — there's a lot to that
05:08:02  <ArxPoetica>not knowing ember, I can't fully provide an answer
05:08:12  <ArxPoetica>but the main thing is that SocketStream has it's own API
05:08:26  <ArxPoetica>so no matter how you wire up ember, you'll still end up using ss.rpc
05:08:31  <ArxPoetica>on the front end.
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05:15:17  <mdedetrich>the thing is, the rest interface deals with simple requests to get objects
05:15:33  <mdedetrich>where as SS uses a full RPC protocal, you can retrieve as much or as little data as you want
05:15:47  <mdedetrich>for this reason, using things like ember isn't the best with SS
05:16:00  <mdedetrich>in fact I would use backbone, and that is backbone with a bit of customization as well
05:17:35  <mdedetrich>in other words, its a different paradigm
05:17:57  <mdedetrich>frameworks like ember imply that you are using a REST like model
05:25:11  <strikeout>well, you can write a custom adapter for the data-store
05:25:28  <strikeout>like this: http://stackoverflow.com/a/10557122/1566595
05:37:21  <ArxPoetica>Of course, SS lets you roll your own responders… :P
05:37:44  <ArxPoetica>Also, having done some work in Angular, there isn't any reason it *can't* be coupled.
05:38:05  <ArxPoetica>strikeout, have you seen any of the actual ss ember demos?
05:40:06  <strikeout>ofcourse :)
05:40:25  <strikeout>thing is: I'm lazy, don't want to completely roll, copy&pasta! :D
05:40:39  <ArxPoetica>THe question has been asked in the forums too: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/socketstream/ember/socketstream/yc_F8wHQh3c/n2naHhURmG0J
05:40:46  <ArxPoetica>I'm trying to find some of the demos
05:41:32  <ArxPoetica>Here we go...https://github.com/socketstream/socketstream/blob/master/doc/guide/en/using_emberjs.md
05:41:36  <ArxPoetica>and
05:41:53  <ArxPoetica>https://github.com/jeshuaborges/socketstream-ember-demo
05:46:06  <strikeout>yupp, based all my work so far on the ss-ember-demo
05:46:52  <strikeout>the using_ember read me doesn't cover web sockets at all tho
05:47:42  <strikeout>btw: the socketstream-ember-demo is totally outdated, the same guy made a better one -- https://github.com/jeshuaborges/chatorious
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06:36:40  <strikeout>do you know how I can unsubscribe from a ss.event.on('something') binding?
06:36:46  <strikeout>clientside
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17:19:20  <ArxPoetica1>lo
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17:34:36  <zenocon>hey
17:36:01  <zenocon>u ever used brunch of yeoman? i'm looking at both. i want all the nice stuff from socket stream, but not necessarily for a single page app...looking for scaffolding tool that can quickly setup a new project with express, angular, jade, minification, live reload, etc.
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19:52:40  <ArxPoetica>Hey. You kidz ever hear of one.js?
19:52:44  <ArxPoetica>https://github.com/azer/onejs
19:52:51  <ArxPoetica>Browserify equivalent?
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23:42:15  <paulbjensen>hi all.
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23:56:17  <ArxPoetica1>hey paul
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