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15:32:47  <paulbjensen>good news, I've managed to get passport (w/ twitter) working with Socketstream.
15:33:44  <paulbjensen>bad news, getting it setup is not easy at all. You have to use connect-route instead of ss.http.router, and you have to load the connect middleware in a very specific order.
16:01:22  <ArxPoetica>nice work.
16:01:29  <ArxPoetica>hey paulbjensen --
16:01:40  <paulbjensen>thanks
16:01:55  <ArxPoetica>I might have asked you this previously --
16:02:04  <ArxPoetica>what do you use for cloud/CDN?
16:02:22  <ArxPoetica>btw, I used passport once.
16:02:29  <ArxPoetica>And, yeah, it's a trick to set up.
16:02:34  <ArxPoetica>I'd like to see your configuration
16:02:43  <paulbjensen>I haven't used any with my SS apps yet, but currently using S3/Cloudfront at work
16:02:53  <ArxPoetica>mdedetrich who used to spend time in here (don't know where he went) used to roll his own auth.
16:03:00  <ArxPoetica>S3?
16:03:07  <paulbjensen>I'm pushing a repo up in a minute (had to remove it because it included twitter credentials :/
16:03:11  <ArxPoetica>I need to figure out costs so I can convey to a client.
16:03:30  <ArxPoetica>And I need the cheapest option viable that can potentially carry video.
16:03:31  <ArxPoetica>:P
16:03:38  <ArxPoetica>Maybe that's too much to ask. :P
16:03:46  <ArxPoetica>lol
16:03:56  <paulbjensen>we haven't yet explored video cdn options
16:04:18  <paulbjensen>but I know that people mention Akamai because they're good with streaming video
16:04:27  <ArxPoetica>Yeah? I'll look into that.
16:06:40  <paulbjensen>I think S3 is $0.12 per GB of video
16:06:50  <paulbjensen>If i remember correctly
16:07:08  <paulbjensen>sorry, not S3, cloudfront
16:07:32  <ArxPoetica>cloudfront, eh?
16:07:55  <ArxPoetica>so I can just crunch the numbers.
16:09:59  <paulbjensen>the github repo w/ passport (twitter auth strategy) integrated with ss https://github.com/paulbjensen/ss-passport-example
16:10:14  <paulbjensen>the github issue tracking it
16:10:15  <paulbjensen>https://github.com/socketstream/socketstream/issues/229
16:20:35  <ArxPoetica>sweet and thx
16:25:51  <paulbjensen>did you have any luck with getting browserify to load client-side modules from other paths?
16:28:26  <ArxPoetica>ha — no
16:28:30  <ArxPoetica>I kind of gave up
16:28:35  <ArxPoetica>the code was a little intense.
16:28:46  <ArxPoetica>Gotta hand it to owenb — he knows his stuff.
16:29:05  <ArxPoetica>It's actually the coffeescript world — not my favorite.
16:29:35  <ArxPoetica>I haven't completely given up on future contributions.
16:29:40  <ArxPoetica>Just for the time being — had other priorities.
16:29:53  <ArxPoetica>I'll probably come back to it at some point and figure it out.
16:30:03  <ArxPoetica>It seemed to be in the asset.coffee file
16:30:22  <ArxPoetica>He was returning as js function/handler
16:30:31  <ArxPoetica>I was getting a little lost in the logic
16:32:12  <paulbjensen>did you see the bit about using 'system' folder in client/code? inside the docs/guide/en/client_side_code.md
16:33:14  <paulbjensen>line 27 on that file, looks like you can do require('x'), loads client/code/system/x
16:35:10  <paulbjensen>only bummer being you don't have access to the browser's window object
16:36:44  <paulbjensen>also, from reading that doc (new stuff to me), it turns out that it's using a custom collection of methods from node-browserify to handle client-side loading.
16:37:04  <ArxPoetica>hmm...
16:37:15  <ArxPoetica>yeah
16:38:01  <ArxPoetica>where are you looking again?
16:38:02  <paulbjensen>the thing I'm currently struggling with is making a clean way to re-use code between apps.
16:38:13  <ArxPoetica>https://github.com/socketstream/socketstream/blob/master/doc/guide/en/client_side_code.md?
16:38:15  <ArxPoetica>https://github.com/socketstream/socketstream/blob/master/doc/guide/en/client_side_code.md >
16:38:17  <ArxPoetica>oops
16:38:19  <ArxPoetica>https://github.com/socketstream/socketstream/blob/master/doc/guide/en/client_side_code.md ?
16:38:21  <ArxPoetica>ha ha
16:38:31  <paulbjensen>yep
16:38:50  <ArxPoetica>Yeah. I think it's important to allow folder architecture — to that end.
16:39:45  <paulbjensen>agreed. I want to be able to have an npm that provides both client and server code, and be able to inject it into the stack without having to manually insert files in the app.
16:39:53  <paulbjensen>A bit like how Rails engines works.
16:40:22  <paulbjensen>I can make server-side code reusable, but it's the client-side.
16:40:53  <ArxPoetica>right
16:40:55  <paulbjensen>for example, I would love to extract out the auth code from Dashku into an npm that could be a 1-line require and load.
16:41:07  <ArxPoetica>exactly
16:41:58  <ArxPoetica>do you think you'll wok on that?
16:42:08  <ArxPoetica>if you do, i'd like to see the pr
16:42:12  <ArxPoetica>pull req
16:42:18  <ArxPoetica>8work
16:42:21  <ArxPoetica>*work ha
16:42:29  <ArxPoetica>darn fingers
16:43:09  <paulbjensen>:) I'd like to, I think the next stage is making reusable plugins for SS.
16:43:16  <ArxPoetica>right
16:43:34  <ArxPoetica>i think owenb was trying to fo that in .4?
16:43:46  <ArxPoetica>create an architecture for it
16:44:07  <ArxPoetica>it's a little hard waiting for that :P
16:44:25  <ArxPoetica>i'd like to focus contributions in that area
16:44:32  <ArxPoetica>but ya know
16:45:12  <paulbjensen>I think that 0.4 is going to be a big rewrite, like 0.2 to 0.3, and there's no telling exactly when it will be done.
16:53:02  <paulbjensen>and people can't/won't wait, they need to make choices about the platforms they build their apps on.
16:54:10  <paulbjensen>so you have to maintain 0.3, whilst 0.4 introduces the radical changes.
16:56:14  <paulbjensen>It's a bit like the game console wars: Microsoft gained on Sony when Sony delayed the PS3 and Microsoft launched the Xbox 360.
17:08:49  <paulbjensen>My concern is that 0.4 could take time to be released, and if fixes/small improvements are pushed back to be pushed into 0.4, then people will abandon 0.3, and end up using other stuff.
17:09:14  <ArxPoetica>yeah, i agree
17:09:18  <ArxPoetica>(sorry, stepped away)
17:09:39  <ArxPoetica>And I know Owen has been *super* cautious about calling .3 "production" ready, for good reason
17:09:53  <ArxPoetica>But it's pretty close, in terms of beta, imho
17:11:06  <paulbjensen>Yeah, I found issues with 0.3 when building Dashku, the kind that make you rage at it
17:11:29  <ArxPoetica>lol
17:11:39  <ArxPoetica>hey random question
17:11:45  <paulbjensen>shoot
17:11:47  <ArxPoetica>I'm trying to remember the name of a tech website
17:11:57  <ArxPoetica>it's *sort of* like gizmodo
17:12:02  <paulbjensen>engadget?
17:12:05  <ArxPoetica>maybe
17:12:13  <paulbjensen>theverge
17:12:14  <ArxPoetica>I think it has tech in the title
17:12:20  <ArxPoetica>technarati
17:12:22  <ArxPoetica>???
17:12:27  <paulbjensen>technorate
17:12:29  <ArxPoetica>it's laid out like gizmodo
17:12:30  <ArxPoetica>yeah
17:12:31  <paulbjensen>sorry
17:12:35  <paulbjensen>technorati
17:12:48  <ArxPoetica>hmm…nope ha
17:13:54  <ArxPoetica>http://lifehacker.com/
17:13:56  <ArxPoetica>this is it
17:13:59  <ArxPoetica>:P
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17:20:58  <paulbjensen>ah yeah
17:23:27  <paulbjensen>coming back to 0.3 production-readiness, I find it's something of a chicken-egg issue.
17:23:46  <paulbjensen>people wait for a piece of software to be deemed production-ready.
17:23:59  <paulbjensen>before they put it into production
17:25:20  <paulbjensen>but if everyone operates on that logic, then it never goes into production
17:26:24  <paulbjensen>it requires someone to stick the code into production use, experience the bugs, pain points, and fix them.
17:36:16  <paulbjensen>Some of that has happened with making Dashku, but now there's a need to address some of the other holes around SS. Like documentation.
17:37:34  <paulbjensen>I remember seeing a presentation in 2nd half of 2011 where the list of things missing from SocketStream included tests, demo apps, and documentation. I saw some of those same items in the LXJS/RealtimeConf a year later.
17:38:04  <ArxPoetica>Agreed.
17:39:21  <paulbjensen>My aim this year is to plug those holes and grow the ecosystem around SS.
17:40:58  <ArxPoetica>My aim is to put things into production. :P
17:41:12  <ArxPoetica>We're soft-launching Civic Seed in February.
17:41:21  <paulbjensen>awesome.
17:41:27  <ArxPoetica>And I've got an online documentary going into prod. in May.
17:41:33  <ArxPoetica>Soft launch in April.
17:41:53  <ArxPoetica>(That's why I'm trying to figure out the video/CDN thing)
17:42:09  <ArxPoetica>It's funded through Tribeca.
17:42:13  <ArxPoetica>So a lot of eyes on it.
17:43:26  <ArxPoetica>I'm slightly nervous, because the area I'm weakest in (IT/server-related stuff) — we haven't really staffed for that.
17:43:36  <ArxPoetica>And I don't want it to consume too much of my time.
17:43:55  <ArxPoetica>So I'm making suggestions, but I might end up trying to find someone who can fill in gaps on the IT side of things.
17:44:01  <paulbjensen>http://www.metacdn.com is worth a look (just googled)
17:44:03  <ArxPoetica>OR just find really reliable services.
17:44:25  <ArxPoetica>Interesting.
17:44:48  <ArxPoetica>That's interesting: they leverage multiple cloud providers?
17:44:53  <ArxPoetica>Wonder how that works.
17:46:39  <paulbjensen>they must have accounts with each, and have wrapped their APIs with an internal API that fans out content to those, depending on the content type
17:47:54  <ArxPoetica>Interesting.
17:48:21  <ArxPoetica>Having never used a CDN, I have no idea what's usual for bandwidth, or how to measure such things.
17:57:10  <paulbjensen>best thing is to measure the video size in MBs x number of viewers as a rough measure of the bandwidth you'll need.
17:57:59  <paulbjensen>that assumes that the video file size is know (ie. prerecorded and not live streaming)
17:58:04  <paulbjensen>*known
18:04:23  <ArxPoetica>Okay.
18:04:36  <ArxPoetica>This is all prerecorded. :)
18:04:48  <paulbjensen>that makes things easier.
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18:06:10  <paulbjensen>back in a bit (food)
18:45:40  <paulbjensen>back
19:20:45  <ArxPoetica>sup
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19:25:27  <paulbjensen>thinking about what useful wrappers SS could use for passport.
19:27:22  <paulbjensen>It's hard to gauge, because for example, with Twitter, you need to go to Twitter's site, then hit an Oauth callback url, which then redirects you to another url, the url varying depending on whether auth was successful or not.
19:28:44  <paulbjensen>Passport is very agnostic, which is nice, but means a lot of manual gluecode
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