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18:57:35  <ningu>what's the topic?
19:01:28  <cjm>ningu: chat with team @diy
19:01:48  <ningu>the podcast is on mixlr, right? showing off-air for me so I guess still setting it up
19:02:03  <cjm>yeah, not live yet
19:02:05  <cjm>2min
19:02:13  <ningu>ok :)
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19:12:16  <ningu>most kids don't know the word iterative. :)
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19:16:55  <ccowan>We are still 0.8 as well
19:17:54  <ccowan>Upgrading to the latest version is not just a trivial task especially when you have paying customers and things are stable in production
19:18:25  <ningu>what about updating dependencies?
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19:25:56  <ningu>could you go into more detail about your alternative to forever?
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19:30:10  <awaterma>boom!
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19:31:09  <ccowan>Funny… I use parallel like crazy
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19:31:46  <thisandagain>ningu: i'll try to post a gist today which documents how we set-up deamon node.js processes
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19:31:47  <thisandagain>:-)
19:31:55  <ningu>thisandagain: ok cool :)
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19:32:23  <ningu>I'm also curious about zero downtime redeployment
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19:34:26  <thisandagain>:-)
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19:36:05  <ningu>I'm going to get a cup of coffee now, so there's that.
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19:46:29  <thisandagain>lol
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19:54:27  <ccowan>how many tests?
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20:02:05  <ccowan>are you logging request bodies too?
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20:03:46  <ningu>what about grunt vs. makefiles?
20:04:03  <wc->what is roto?
20:04:12  <ningu>roto is @diy in-house apparently.
20:04:16  <wc->ahh ok
20:04:20  <wc->googled it and didnt get anything
20:04:38  <thisandagain>github.com/diy/roto
20:04:56  <wc->sweet thank you
20:05:18  * awatermapart
20:07:31  <thisandagain>https://github.com/trentm/json
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20:08:30  <shama>It would be awesome if the DIY guys could weigh in on this -> https://github.com/node-task/spec/wiki We're trying to combine efforts with a common task spec and roto looks awesome.
20:08:57  <thisandagain>rad... i'll def. check it out
20:09:26  <ccowan>it looks like everyone is trying to find a replacement for Grunt
20:09:36  <ccowan>I have a freind who's writing one called gulp
20:09:54  <ccowan>https://github.com/wearefractal/gulp
20:11:37  <dshaw_>Any questions?
20:11:53  <dshaw_>That we haven't covered yet...
20:11:59  <shama>Yeah that's why we started node-task so we can hopefully all share a common task format and work together. I'd love for gulp to weigh in as well.
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20:12:39  <ccowan>dshaw_: How many tests do they have?
20:12:44  <ningu>shama: the module is called gulp, not the friend :)
20:12:59  <dshaw_>ccowan: covered. thousands
20:13:00  <shama>ningu: ah ha, just found the project :)
20:13:16  <ccowan>dshaw_: ok… I missed that part
20:13:20  <dshaw_>np
20:13:34  <ccowan>dshaw_: did we cover their database/store?
20:13:40  <dshaw_>no
20:16:55  <ccowan>Are they accessing the Database with vanilla SQL and MySQL? or ORM?
20:18:20  <ccowan>Cool! Thumbs up!
20:19:28  <ccowan>dshaw_: It's nice to hear what other teams are doing compared to yourself… more of this!
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20:22:42  <jlord>dshaw_: and jlord will be at nodeconf eu! best part!
20:23:28  <thisandagain>jlord: omg! hi!
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20:25:55  <jlord>thisandagain: hey!! so excited to hear y'all on the internet!
20:26:57  <jlord>woahhh thisandagain said my name on a node podcast!
20:27:01  <thisandagain>lol
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20:29:36  <dshaw_>jlord: woop woop!
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20:30:19  <jlord>thisandagain: i want to come visit soon! are y'all in the new office yet?
20:30:45  <thisandagain>jlord: no... still building it out. i want to have a roller skating party before we move in. ;-)
20:31:08  <thisandagain>jlord: please come visit though!
20:31:16  <jlord>thisandagain: yes! i have roller blades! i'm ready!
20:31:31  <owen1>ningu: (missed the podcast) what are the issues with forever?
20:32:59  <thisandagain>owen1: nothing wrong with forever specifically... i just brought up the issue with the idiom of running forever on a single node process
20:32:59  <ningu>owen1: I didn't entirely follow. they said they use another method that has more control over process management iirc.
20:34:00  <thisandagain>we use a daemon but it wraps a master process that spawns child processes using cluster
20:34:48  <ningu>thisandagain: so that takes care of having to do the loop to spawn cluster processes yourself in each app?
20:35:19  <ningu>thisandagain: also, what abour zero downtime restarts?
20:35:21  <owen1>ningu: there is also pm2
20:35:42  <thisandagain>owen1: yup... a bunch of folks have been writing modules to wrap these cluster patterns
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20:36:20  <ningu>hmm
20:36:40  <thisandagain>we do some trickery specific to AWS's load balancers to do zero downtime restarts. outside of that I would check out some of james' (substack) modules. fleet, etc.
20:37:18  <ningu>thisandagain: so if it's on a single server you can't do it effectively?
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20:37:35  <ningu>I don't have anything at large scale currently but it would still be nice to have zero downtime since it is in continuous use
20:37:38  <thisandagain>ningu: exactly. which is not ideal.
20:38:13  <thisandagain>as we have had to scale we moved a few things out of node.js (load balancing, ssl handling) so we do a few things that aren't great for smaller deployments.
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20:39:07  <thisandagain>we've been playing with github.com/substack/ploy lately and have some ideas for how to repurpose that idea for API deployment versioning, etc. but don't have anything in production yet.
20:39:33  <ningu>do you use restify's versioning support or your own?
20:39:44  <thisandagain>ningu: yup. restify's
20:39:45  <ningu>I've seen arguments about whether Accept-Version is "correct"
20:39:50  <ningu>but there seems to be no standard
20:40:15  <thisandagain>ningu: yeah... no "correct" way as per HTTP standard, but I like using HTTP headers in instances like this.
20:40:41  <thisandagain>i love that restify's implementation is based on semver though.
20:40:43  <thisandagain>:-)
20:40:50  <ningu>I also wonder about code management -- do you share most of the code across versions, what do you name your methods (e.g. put V1 at the end of each initially and then...??) etc.
20:41:10  <ningu>yeah, it seems pretty nice.
20:41:28  <ningu>I also like restify's formatter support and error handling.
20:41:39  <thisandagain>ningu: that part is tough to be honest.
20:42:21  <thisandagain>ningu: i've been looking to use a ploy-like solution but based on the Accepts-Version header rather than vhosts that routes to an individual API version "branch"
20:42:30  <ningu>yeah
20:42:38  <ningu>I thought of something like that but haven't seen it implemented
20:42:45  <thisandagain>working on it!
20:42:49  <ningu>but that can be problematic if you change the data model
20:42:49  <thisandagain>:-)
20:43:02  <ningu>you could change your schema and seamlessly support old versions if it's in a single branch
20:43:03  <thisandagain>yeah... migrations will always have to be global
20:43:19  <ningu>well, yeah, or update all the old branches :)
20:43:51  <thisandagain>but what I dig about the idea is that your tests will stay with each version branch thus you'll always have good support for tracking regressions.
20:44:02  <ningu>hmm... that's true
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22:07:42  <dstokes>nodeup… that's what i forgot today :'(
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22:58:25  <owen1>dstokes: ahah nice. i looked at my inbox 1 hour late
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23:04:35  <dstokes>yeah, oh well. just means i'll have something to do in traffic
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23:39:09  <lea>o_O
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