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| <owen1> | what's slim? https://registry.hub.docker.com/_/iojs/ |
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| <ncthom91> | hi all. Anybody here familiar with libuv's thread-local stuff? http://docs.libuv.org/en/latest/threading.html#thread-local-storage |
| 00:32:06
| <owen1> | how often does the io.js core devs meet/discuss the io.js project?? |
| 00:32:07
| <ncthom91> | The docs are not.. helpful lol. I'm curious *when* is the right time to uv_key_create |
| 00:32:28
| <ncthom91> | do I do it once from each thread? |
| 00:32:31
| <mscdex> | owen1: it appears the only difference between the slim/non-slim versions is the use of jessie vs jessie-curl images |
| 00:32:43
| <owen1> | mscdex: thanks! |
| 00:33:13
| <mscdex> | i guess jessie-curl is a smaller base of debian jessie |
| 00:33:39
| <ncthom91> | ah, didn't realize there was a #libuv. Moving that question there... |
| 00:33:58
| <mscdex> | owen1: with regards to meetings, typically there's a weekly TC call every Wendesday ~4pm EST |
| 00:34:15
| <owen1> | mscdex: sweet. is it live? |
| 00:34:15
| <mscdex> | owen1: they're all broadcasted live on youtube |
| 00:34:24
| <owen1> | can you share a link? |
| 00:34:53
| <owen1> | also, do u have a link to the recent blog post about iojs vs node commits? |
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| <mscdex> | owen1: you can find the archives of the TC meetings here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9Ug4jAzdP-T3ozwjpL9BYw |
| 00:35:44
| <mscdex> | owen1: what blog post? |
| 00:36:21
| <owen1> | mscdex: not sure. there was a nice post with stats about number of commit of each project. |
| 00:36:32
| <mscdex> | oh |
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| <owen1> | i saw it on twitter of one of the core guys or maybe it was npm's cto |
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| <owen1> | can i get 'executive summary' for using iojs intead of node? |
| 00:54:40
| <owen1> | (links, posts or just points) |
| 00:55:09
| <substack> | new v8 optimizations, es6 features |
| 00:55:21
| <StephenLynx> | performance increase |
| 00:55:31
| <StephenLynx> | better use of cores |
| 00:55:42
| <StephenLynx> | it now balances the requests on the workers |
| 00:56:38
| <owen1> | cores? |
| 00:58:02
| <owen1> | where can i read about performance increase, better use of cores and balances the reuests on the workers? |
| 00:59:05
| <owen1> | does balance requests related to the cluster module? |
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| 01:02:29
| <StephenLynx> | yes |
| 01:02:47
| <StephenLynx> | now it alternates instead of filling a worker and only then switching to other |
| 01:03:10
| <StephenLynx> | I don't know of a centralized source, I just saw things come up during development |
| 01:03:29
| <StephenLynx> | no one stopped and summarized why it is better than node. |
| 01:06:06
| <owen1> | StephenLynx: by filing a worker, you mean - it passes more requests to an already busy worker? |
| 01:06:35
| <StephenLynx> | yes. |
| 01:06:43
| <StephenLynx> | it used to be like that. |
| 01:07:03
| <StephenLynx> | now it does round robin if I am not mistaken |
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| <owen1> | thanks! |
| 01:12:49
| <owen1> | if anyone know what blog post i am talking about, please share. |
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| <Timothy_1u> | rvagg: is there a reason why you are using `make -j` for armv8-ubuntu1404 jenkins client? |
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| <Timothy_1u> | It seems to cause sporadic failures as the client/slave doesn't have enough memory for unconstrained parallelism |
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| <ncthom91> | hey all. Can anyone help me figure out how duplicate a v8 Isolate and Context? I'm trying to evaluate a node script in a new context, in a new isolate, in a new thread, but Node's globals are missing |
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| <owen1> | i assume that's the roadmap for io.js - http://roadmap.iojs.org can someone point me to the node.js roadmap? i would like to understand the differences. |
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| <fooey> | the node.js roadmap is more of a treadmill |
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| <owen1> | i guess this is more accurate: https://github.com/iojs/io.js/blob/v1.x/ROADMAP.md |
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| <fooey> | https://strongloop.com/strongblog/node-js-v0-12-roadmap-for-the-future/ is the only/most recent roadmap for node I can find |
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| <owen1> | fooey: thanks! |
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| <owen1> | another difference is the docs. it seems like there are more docs or iojs - https://iojs.org/api/errors.html |
| 07:07:53
| <owen1> | i don't think node.js have this page at all |
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| <amstrad> | is iojs going to support multiple isolates within the same process? |
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| <owen1> | is there a list of companies that uses io.js? |
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| <ChALkeR> | rvagg: Is there a nodesource repo for iojs 2.x? |
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| <Foxandxss> | is there a way to migrate global packages? I need to install them over and over when I update iojs |
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| <ChALkeR> | rvagg: Ah, there is. It just somewhy has directory listing turned off, while repo for 1.x has directory listing turned on. |
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| 13:49:24
| <Pritchard> | Are there any popular alternatives to the primary #node.js channel? |
| 13:50:13
| <StephenLynx> | I cut connection with the node.js community at all when I got banned from their channel by using a word an OP didn't liked. |
| 13:50:36
| <Pritchard> | StephenLynx: Isn't @isaacs here also a #node.js op who agrees with those policies, though? |
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| <StephenLynx> | I don't know, I don't care, they don't want my help, I don't want their company. |
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| 13:51:51
| <Sharaal> | I think if somewhen I see any benefit of io.js I will switch too :) |
| 13:51:56
| <Pritchard> | StephenLynx: I'm currently banned from the #node.js channel myself... I am not frustrated by their policies, but I do find their handling of things they find offensive frustrating. |
| 13:52:11
| <StephenLynx> | yeah, its completely bollocks. |
| 13:52:20
| <Pritchard> | But this is a problem I have with ops on IRC in general... tbh. |
| 13:52:29
| <StephenLynx> | I never had any issues but with them. |
| 13:52:37
| <StephenLynx> | only at #node.js |
| 13:52:45
| <StephenLynx> | because they put SJW's as OPS. |
| 13:52:48
| <StephenLynx> | so you know how that goes. |
| 13:52:55
| <StephenLynx> | "I don't like it, ding dong bannu" |
| 13:53:02
| <Pritchard> | Well, I'll put it out there and say I'm a Christian, and I was hanging in ##not-physics when an op there said "The next comment about God that isn't derogatory gets banned." |
| 13:53:08
| <Foxandxss> | Pritchard: if you join the angular channel one day, I will treat you well :P |
| 13:53:16
| <StephenLynx> | lol what I dick. |
| 13:53:24
| <StephenLynx> | and I an anti-theist. |
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| 13:53:36
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: Thanks :) I use Angular as well. Although, we are changing over to React + FLUX soon. |
| 13:53:55
| <Pritchard> | It really is elegant in its own ways, until you hit the eventual problems any architecture / framework has that makes you want to pull out your hair :P |
| 13:54:04
| <Pritchard> | (If you have any left, heheh.) |
| 13:54:09
| <Foxandxss> | yeah, that will always happen :P |
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| 13:54:49
| <Pritchard> | No, I seriously do not have a problem with limiting types of conversations in certain IRC channels... But my convo. went something like this: |
| 13:54:56
| <Foxandxss> | I have hair... I realized today that I looks like a young wozniak, not sure what to think |
| 13:55:21
| <Pritchard> | Very lightly, another user and I mentioned that we work only with guys, and that we wished we could work with some women - good looking ones. (Okay, we said hot chicks.) |
| 13:55:21
| <StephenLynx> | I wonder if those types will once realize THEY are the bigots. |
| 13:55:29
| <StephenLynx> | will eventually* |
| 13:55:53
| <StephenLynx> | you can't take one step outside their politically correct mindset. |
| 13:55:57
| <Foxandxss> | Pritchard: where are you from? |
| 13:56:04
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: IN, USA. |
| 13:56:06
| <StephenLynx> | anything less and you are literally hitler. |
| 13:56:12
| <Foxandxss> | that is weird |
| 13:56:20
| <Pritchard> | Why? |
| 13:56:25
| <StephenLynx> | actually, only sweden is worse than US in that aspect. |
| 13:56:41
| <StephenLynx> | the bay area is SJW country. |
| 13:56:51
| <Foxandxss> | because that kind of behavior (not liking sexism like hot chicks) is something that happens a lot in USA |
| 13:57:00
| <Pritchard> | Anyways, that blew up the entire channel. I had people telling me that saying that "implies women are only valuable for their bodies". No, that's not what I said? |
| 13:57:40
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: I just think it's OK for everyone to have their own preference :-/ I totally, totally get the #node.js policies and I RESPECT them. |
| 13:57:40
| <StephenLynx> | lol |
| 13:57:43
| <StephenLynx> | typical. |
| 13:57:43
| <Foxandxss> | I saw some "op" scold a user beause he said "I finally got this bitch working" |
| 13:57:46
| <Foxandxss> | and yes, it was code |
| 13:57:48
| <Pritchard> | However, the behavior of the OPs is bigoted. |
| 13:58:05
| <StephenLynx> | node.js community is rotten to the core. |
| 13:58:07
| <StephenLynx> | because you see |
| 13:58:12
| <StephenLynx> | when you give power to an extremists |
| 13:58:28
| <StephenLynx> | anyone that doesn't agree with him will either go away or be expelled. |
| 13:58:32
| <Pritchard> | It is extreme :-/ That's really the problem. |
| 13:58:38
| <StephenLynx> | so the extremist proportion only grows. |
| 13:58:43
| <Foxandxss> | the be honest, it is a touchy topic |
| 13:58:49
| <StephenLynx> | that is exactly what happened with node.js community. |
| 13:58:50
| <Pritchard> | For example, I would respect a response that said, "No comments of any sexual nature, and no foul language please." |
| 13:58:57
| <Foxandxss> | as I said, I am op of the angular channel with 800+ users |
| 13:59:07
| <Foxandxss> | it is quite hard to be neutral sometimes |
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| 13:59:30
| <Foxandxss> | Pritchard: yeah, warning always comes first |
| 13:59:37
| <StephenLynx> | that is one of the main reasons I oppose a reconciliation, because of how toxic is the node.js community at this point. |
| 13:59:43
| <Foxandxss> | not the first time I have to tell someone that "it is enough" |
| 13:59:51
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: I was warned, but I was already angry because of the ##not-physics incident :( |
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| 14:00:00
| <Pritchard> | Misbehavior on my part at that point, honestly. |
| 14:00:11
| <Foxandxss> | to be honest (yet again), irc communities are a bit... meh |
| 14:00:16
| <Foxandxss> | don't do rails |
| 14:00:18
| <Foxandxss> | fair warning |
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| 14:00:31
| <Pritchard> | And you really do some great work, modding Foxandxss. I know it's not easy. |
| 14:00:37
| <StephenLynx> | in the event of a reconciliation I would just interact with the cloned repository and nothing else. |
| 14:00:51
| <Pritchard> | I just don't get what's so difficult about treating professional IRC channels like a normal work environment? Don't sit here and debate your social justice views with me. |
| 14:01:07
| <Pritchard> | Have a policy that applies affectively to as many people as possible, reasonably. |
| 14:01:16
| <StephenLynx> | extremists |
| 14:01:31
| <Foxandxss> | the problem is that IRC channel accepts people from all the world, different types of thinking, different types of, well, everything |
| 14:01:36
| <StephenLynx> | and btw, the work environments at the bay area ARE like this now. |
| 14:01:37
| <Foxandxss> | and it is easy for two people to collide |
| 14:01:42
| <Foxandxss> | and if one is an op, ops |
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| 14:02:12
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: Yes, I understand that :) I'm a member of some traditional web forums as well. The moderators are generally well... very moderate. |
| 14:02:29
| <Pritchard> | It is a big deal when someone in a traditional forum is banned, even temporarily. |
| 14:02:48
| <Pritchard> | There's too much visibility. Their posts, tips, advice, reputation, etc. are all archived in the forum and people's memories. |
| 14:02:50
| <Foxandxss> | tell me what to say if someone enters saying.... "I am bored of this shit of angular, no one helps me, bla bla, I spent 3 hours with this shit and the doc sucks" |
| 14:03:01
| <Foxandxss> | well actually I say, won't help you with those manners |
| 14:03:23
| <Foxandxss> | Pritchard: well, don't be stupid then |
| 14:03:33
| <Foxandxss> | for example, I had to kick (just kick) two person the other month |
| 14:03:39
| <Foxandxss> | they were insulting each other pretty badly |
| 14:03:43
| <Foxandxss> | for an stupidity |
| 14:03:54
| <Foxandxss> | was like a "hey, just stop" |
| 14:04:07
| <Foxandxss> | one said sorry and entered again |
| 14:04:11
| <Foxandxss> | the other started to insult me on a query |
| 14:04:13
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| 14:04:38
| <Foxandxss> | if you want your reputation to stay, behave like a normal human being |
| 14:04:41
| <Foxandxss> | is not that hard :P |
| 14:04:44
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: As an op, you're seen as an authority figure. People vent their frustration to you. I know because I've been there. It's not personal. |
| 14:04:48
| <Pritchard> | yes, but everyone has their moments, yeah? |
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| 14:04:53
| <Foxandxss> | of course |
| 14:05:20
| <Foxandxss> | you end knowing who's behind a nick and what's normal and what is not from them |
| 14:05:57
| <Pritchard> | FYI, I've been waiting over 2 years to begin working with #node.js. So for such an uproar to occur over a seemingly innocent comment on my end was frustrating and saddening at the same time. |
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| 14:06:15
| <Pritchard> | And it wasn't just the uproar, it was the specific responses from the channel ops. |
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| 14:06:48
| <Foxandxss> | if a person is chosen because it works there, you can expect anything |
| 14:06:49
| <Pritchard> | It may not even be their fault. Wording things in a way that are interpreted how you want them to be no matter the other person's subjective feelings is not easy. I get it. |
| 14:06:56
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| 14:07:30
| <Pritchard> | But speaking "politely" instead of yelling, cursing, etc. doesn't make your statements any better than another's. It's false humility, superiority. |
| 14:08:06
| <Pritchard> | For example, on my end, we had a girl work for us for a while. I was upset when she left because I didn't feel as though we made her feel very welcome. We're development consultants. She left for a company that did nothing but web design. I'm sure she fit in better there. |
| 14:08:45
| <Pritchard> | But she was cute, fun, friendly, energetic. It shook things up. In a good way. Any sexual harassment or discomfort would have not been tolerated at all. That is a normal work place to me. People flirt. |
| 14:09:17
| <Foxandxss> | we are humans after all |
| 14:09:36
| <Foxandxss> | and men |
| 14:10:00
| <Pritchard> | My boss is gay and even he's flirted in a very friendly, non-awkward way with me lol. Now, come on. My other boss walks by and punches me in the gut every now and then. |
| 14:10:33
| <Pritchard> | I get that there are boundaries, but unless something is grossly inappropriate, IMO (and others may disagree), they are soft boundaries, not hard lines. |
| 14:10:55
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| 14:11:13
| <Pritchard> | Sorry for the rant guys :) Thanks for letting me get my feelings out. I just never knew about this aspect of the Node.js community... Honestly. |
| 14:11:28
| * Pritchard | feels better now |
| 14:11:34
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| 14:11:59
| <Foxandxss> | Pritchard: don't blame the node community really |
| 14:12:09
| <Foxandxss> | it is always someone |
| 14:12:30
| <Foxandxss> | I think that the angular community is very very friendly, but the other day someone left the channel cursing |
| 14:12:31
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| 14:12:44
| <Foxandxss> | about "what an unhelpful channel" |
| 14:12:59
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: How many milliseconds did they wait before leaving? :P jk jk haha |
| 14:13:41
| <Foxandxss> | he didn't want to share any code (not even a replication with cats as I suggested) and who asked for code was a little bit "agresive" |
| 14:13:49
| <Foxandxss> | but that is one person issues with another person issues |
| 14:14:11
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| 14:14:12
| <Pritchard> | Foxandxss: That is true. I should keep that in mind... |
| 14:14:20
| <Foxandxss> | all communities have weird people, always |
| 14:14:33
| <Foxandxss> | not the first time I have to open a query and say... hey brother, don't be that mean with newbies |
| 14:14:52
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| 14:15:51
| <Pritchard> | Right. |
| 14:16:38
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| 14:17:30
| <JoWie> | uh, this is weird. node --version and io --version both show 2.0.1 on my windows. But when i use "node" to run a script, native modules will fail to load |
| 14:17:51
| <mscdex> | JoWie: that's a known issue IIRC |
| 14:18:00
| <mscdex> | JoWie: it's windows-specific |
| 14:18:36
| <JoWie> | yea it works properly on ubuntu |
| 14:18:36
| <mscdex> | JoWie: did you try re-compiling with iojs 2.0.0+ and seeing if it works with both executable names? |
| 14:18:41
| <evanlucas> | mscdex did the delay-load hook not fix that? |
| 14:18:49
| <JoWie> | mscdex: yea |
| 14:19:02
| <mscdex> | evanlucas: yes, it should have, that's why i asked :-) |
| 14:19:03
| <JoWie> | too bad it was not in the known issue list |
| 14:19:15
| <Foxandxss> | windows for devs makes me shivers |
| 14:19:19
| <JoWie> | i spent a long while trying to figure out why it was failing |
| 14:19:22
| <evanlucas> | ah, typed it out and didn't realize you had asked |
| 14:19:30
| <JoWie> | i use all OS' for devving :P |
| 14:20:38
| <JoWie> | mscdex: issue persists when recompiling with 2.0.1 |
| 14:20:40
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| 14:20:41
| <cluese> | can i use coffeescript with iojs? |
| 14:20:49
| <benjamingr> | sure |
| 14:20:50
| <mscdex> | cluese: sure, why not? |
| 14:21:12
| <cluese> | lOl how? |
| 14:21:26
| <mscdex> | JoWie: did you recompile with iojs' copy of node-gyp or did you use vanilla node-gyp from npm? |
| 14:21:56
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| 14:22:07
| <JoWie> | C:\Program Files\iojs\node_modules\npm\node_modules\node-gyp\bin\node-gyp.js |
| 14:22:17
| <mscdex> | ok |
| 14:22:23
| <JoWie> | which is 1.0.3 |
| 14:22:30
| <Foxandxss> | having ES6, coffee is a bit more, meh |
| 14:22:54
| <JoWie> | i actually installed the latest io.js version today so everything should be fresh |
| 14:22:58
| <Pritchard> | Wow. Last comment on this matter: https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun |
| 14:23:02
| <JoWie> | although i had iojs installed before in the same idr |
| 14:23:10
| <JoWie> | dir |
| 14:23:38
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| 14:24:29
| <cluese> | i have started building a project using coffeescript and i would like to switch to io.js, i am using gulp and nodemon, couldnt find any article or tut on the web or iojs site to help... |
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| 14:25:38
| <JoWie> | wtf is that blog serious or a parody or something |
| 14:25:41
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| 14:25:46
| <JoWie> | of |
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| 14:42:00
| <Pritchard> | JoWie: No, it is not a parody. |
| 14:42:18
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| 14:44:26
| <Aria> | Indeed not. No sexism allowed in lots of the node community. We're doing the constant work to keep this community open to people who are usually pushed out. |
| 14:46:38
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: "Our views of what WE perceive as sexism are punitively enforced and non-negotiable." |
| 14:47:31
| <Aria> | Indeed. White male techies have defined our open source culture for too long. |
| 14:47:38
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| 14:49:16
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: A true politician's response :) There's this implication - that I disagree with - that Joyent's policies are the only effective means at combating that culture. |
| 14:49:41
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| 14:49:52
| <cluese> | how can i switch back to the old version of node i had before installing io.js |
| 14:49:58
| <Aria> | cluese: install it |
| 14:50:17
| <cluese> | arrgh. it broke it all my projects |
| 14:50:31
| <Pritchard> | As I said to Isaacs earlier, I agree that the culture needs to change, and I understand the nature and motivation of Joyent's stance. I think many specific actions the Node.js community leaders, however, are harmful in other ways. |
| 14:50:38
| <cluese> | with this gulp error: Cannot find module '/usr/local/lib/node_modules/gulp/node_modules/v8flags/4.2.77.20.flags.json' |
| 14:51:00
| <Aria> | Pritchard: No such implication. Joyent's a smallish private company, with the usual structures that entails. In the larger community, we've taken several other approaches. Though generally, starting an argument when someone says "stop that, that's a harmful action" rather than "sorry, how can we address this better" is a big red flag and gets everyone to ready the banhammer. |
| 14:51:32
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: "stop that, that's a harmful action" I think in itself is bigoted, tbh. |
| 14:51:39
| <Pritchard> | It really depends on what the person was saying or doing. |
| 14:52:26
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: I think a major problem with online communities right now is that many actions *are* harmful, but aren't perceived as such. Thus, I think the community leaders need to be educators as well as enforcers of policies. |
| 14:52:30
| <Aria> | Yeah, that's where we disagree. The oft cited line that is usually appropriate is "if I say "get off my foot", responding "but I'm not stepping on it that hard!" or "I'm not, not really" is not ever the right answer." |
| 14:53:16
| <Aria> | But anyway. We do educate. The drama that blog post is in response to is when someone made a trivial improvement to make documentation less exclusive, that patch was REJECTED offhand, then that decision was defended hard. |
| 14:53:18
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: That's assuming someone's actually stepped on your foot rather than done something else. You can't cry foul over everything you disagree with. |
| 14:53:58
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: I read the GitHub discussion on that matter. It was ridiculous, IMO. |
| 14:54:22
| <Pritchard> | Maybe you guys are simply lightyears ahead of everyone else regarding social issues, and maybe that's the problem. |
| 14:54:24
| <Aria> | Yeah. Well. It's ancient history. |
| 14:54:29
| <Aria> | Also: not a guy. |
| 14:54:38
| <Pritchard> | I didn't say you were. |
| 14:54:52
| <Aria> | "you guys"? |
| 14:55:00
| <Pritchard> | Yeah, so? |
| 14:55:08
| <Aria> | I'm not a guy. |
| 14:55:09
| <Aria> | Really. |
| 14:55:13
| <Pritchard> | I didn't say you were. |
| 14:55:20
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| 14:55:24
| <cluese> | there are ppl here with real issues |
| 14:55:30
| <Aria> | Then I'm not sure who you're referring to. |
| 14:56:21
| <Pritchard> | I said "you guys", which is often used to refer to a group of people. It's a common convention. Don't ask me why. I didn't author English. |
| 14:56:27
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| 14:56:40
| <Aria> | Yeah. Men are more likely to hear that as gender-neutral. |
| 14:56:48
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| 14:56:53
| <Armen> | I think "you people" is worse ;) |
| 14:57:02
| <Aria> | There's "folks" if you want it. |
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| 14:57:09
| <Pritchard> | What do you mean "you people"? What do YOU mean "you people"? |
| 14:57:30
| <evanlucas> | Or maybe "you all"? |
| 14:57:38
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: Once again, this is a great example of where the internet culture causes problems. I have never, in any real life encounter, had someone take offense to "you guys". |
| 14:57:57
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| 14:58:03
| <Pritchard> | But online, I would agree that the constant male gender bias is discomforting. |
| 14:58:37
| <Pritchard> | (I'm sure it can be in real life. Some people really are assholes and machoism exists offline as well.) |
| 14:58:59
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| 14:58:59
| <grenar> | hello all |
| 14:59:16
| <Aria> | This right here is real life, and a woman is telling you _right now_ that it's a problem. |
| 14:59:32
| * grenar | part |
| 14:59:36
| <Aria> | And I can say that pretty much every time I speak up and say "We're not all guys" here, someone PMs me and says "thanks! I thought I was the only one!" |
| 14:59:36
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: I think you missed my point. |
| 14:59:51
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: Thanks, thought they were the only woman? |
| 15:00:00
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: Or thanks, thought I was the only one offended by that usage? |
| 15:00:01
| <Aria> | Yes. Or the only not-guy. |
| 15:01:36
| <Pritchard> | There's a whole crowd of people sighing over someone taking offense to common colloquial verbage, no matter how many individuals thank you - and I don't know why they're thanking you. |
| 15:01:51
| <Pritchard> | I hate feeling like I'm stepping around broken glass. |
| 15:02:53
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| 15:03:25
| <Pritchard> | I'm glad you humanoid people can get away with being so picky in English, even though there isn't always a great, natural-feeling alternative to colloquial verbage. Some languages don't let you. You must hate dealing with your Spanish users. |
| 15:04:32
| <Pritchard> | But I'll respect your viewpoints @Aria. I apologize if I offended you. If anyone else would prefer me to use gender-neutral methods of communication when speaking to them, please remind me if I am speaking to you. |
| 15:04:49
| <JoWie> | reading that blog made me think both reactions (the of closing the PR and the blog post itself) were strange |
| 15:04:57
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| 15:05:18
| <Aria> | Indeed. There was a lot more discussion outside those two actions, too. |
| 15:05:28
| <Aria> | Though the PR is an epic piece of flamefest that highlights just how bad Github is for discussion |
| 15:05:43
| <Aria> | Pritchard: latin@ are no problem at al |
| 15:05:46
| <Aria> | ;-) |
| 15:05:55
| <Aria> | Turns out there's a hack for that. |
| 15:05:57
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| 15:06:02
| <benjamingr> | I'm a male and I'd appreciate it if you tried to be more respectful to the women in the room Pritchard |
| 15:06:15
| <Aria> | But anyway. It's not about offense, it's about making sure that people who are often excluded are explicitly included. |
| 15:06:22
| <Pritchard> | benjamingr: Your gender doesn't matter. Please stop mentioning it. |
| 15:06:28
| <benjamingr> | It's not a _huge_ deal, but it's nice to at least try to inclusive. |
| 15:06:47
| <benjamingr> | Of course it matters for this discussion, it's a discussion about gender. |
| 15:07:16
| <Pritchard> | benjamingr: How was it a discussion about gender? Does that mean if I was a female and said I wasn't offended by it, that it's OK? |
| 15:07:34
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| 15:07:46
| <benjamingr> | No, but pointing out that not only females find it distasteful is important in my opinion. |
| 15:08:13
| <Pritchard> | benjamingr: Apparently, not only females find it distasteful. You're an example. I also know many females who don't find it distasteful. |
| 15:08:39
| <Pritchard> | Actually a great case and point about how simple things blow up: |
| 15:08:43
| <Pritchard> | "But anyway. It's not about offense, it's about making sure that people who are often excluded are explicitly included." - @Aria |
| 15:09:06
| <Pritchard> | Entirely reasonable response, then you came in IMO kind of blew it overboard by taking genuine offense. |
| 15:09:14
| <Pritchard> | (As I understand it, at least.) |
| 15:09:18
| <benjamingr> | Right, but we don't get to decide for other people what they find or don't find offending. So if someone is politely pointing out to you that they thought what you're saying can be said in a more inclusive matter - it's best to just use more inclusive language. |
| 15:09:23
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| 15:09:52
| <benjamingr> | I didn't take genuine offense, I came into this room seeing if someone was chatting and just noticed the discussion and felt like I should point out I'm 100% with Aria here. |
| 15:10:57
| <Aria> | Also the term you're looking for is "woman". "females" is almost always a sign your sexism has gone off the rails. |
| 15:11:26
| <Pritchard> | No, females is fine. It's scientific also. Ex: The human female anatomy. |
| 15:11:56
| <Aria> | Yes. That is very rarely what you actually want to be speaking about. |
| 15:12:01
| <Pritchard> | I think woman discretions between age, which is are descrimination. |
| 15:12:08
| <Pritchard> | I think that's generally what I actually want to talk about. |
| 15:12:12
| <Pritchard> | I don't know about you though, @Aria. |
| 15:12:24
| <Pritchard> | which is age descrimination |
| 15:12:28
| <Pritchard> | Sorry. Sloppy fingers :) |
| 15:12:38
| <Aria> | Anyway. This conversation is over. Please mind sexist language, even unintended, and try to keep this channel inclusive. |
| 15:12:49
| <Pritchard> | Sure. Sexism conversation over. |
| 15:12:55
| <benjamingr> | :) |
| 15:13:05
| <Pritchard> | @Aria: Please don't insist that you know what I generally mean when speaking. You don't even know me. I find it offensive. |
| 15:13:16
| <Pritchard> | But maybe that's not an issue you people care about? |
| 15:13:28
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| 15:14:08
| <Aria> | I don't care about your offense. I care about making this an inclusive space for people who are often excluded from programming and particularly from open source. |
| 15:14:21
| <Aria> | If you find that offensive, so be it. |
| 15:14:34
| <Pritchard> | You're stepping on my toes. |
| 15:14:36
| <Pritchard> | Please stop. |
| 15:14:43
| * Aria | booted Pritchard (Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.) |
| 15:14:58
| * nickbytes | part |
| 15:15:09
| <benjamingr> | ANYWAY, I'm giving a talk (funnily, about open source contribution and io.js in particular) in a month, and I'm wondering if mikeal_ and/or Fishrock123 are here by any chance for more guidance :)? |
| 15:15:25
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| 15:15:37
| <benjamingr> | I want them cool statistics and graphs :D |
| 15:19:13
| <evanlucas> | benjamingr cool, where are you giving it? |
| 15:19:18
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| 15:20:37
| <benjamingr> | evanlucas: at a conference called YGLF, http://yougottalovefrontend.com/ |
| 15:21:30
| <evanlucas> | cool |
| 15:22:14
| <benjamingr> | ty |
| 15:24:20
| * cluese | part |
| 15:24:35
| <StephenLynx> | funny thing, is that before people got paranoid about social issues on open source projects, people just contributed. there were women, blacks, gays, trans and no one cared, no one excluded no one. |
| 15:24:57
| <bnoordhuis> | on the internet no one knows you're a dog! |
| 15:24:57
| <StephenLynx> | but when this trend started, then people started pitchforking anyone with any slightly different views. |
| 15:25:05
| <Aria> | Yeah. 'cept that when it got studied, we noticed that it's about 3% women. |
| 15:25:12
| <StephenLynx> | so? |
| 15:25:13
| <bnoordhuis> | but can we get this channel back to technical matters, please? |
| 15:25:16
| <Aria> | Turns out there was a problem. |
| 15:25:20
| <StephenLynx> | what problem? |
| 15:25:31
| * Aria | yawns. |
| 15:25:39
| <StephenLynx> | most people who works with sewage are men. |
| 15:25:46
| <StephenLynx> | you intend to put more women there too? |
| 15:25:46
| <Foxandxss> | bnoordhuis: I would love to be a dog :P |
| 15:25:51
| * Aria | booted StephenLynx (You too, eh?) |
| 15:26:00
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| 15:26:09
| <StephenLynx> | great reply, aria. |
| 15:26:13
| <StephenLynx> | totally inclusive. |
| 15:26:13
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| 15:26:27
| <Aria> | This isn't up for discussion. |
| 15:26:34
| <JoWie> | now i remember why i keep leaving irc |
| 15:26:35
| <StephenLynx> | because no one can think different, right? |
| 15:26:47
| <StephenLynx> | you are the very definition of a bigot. |
| 15:26:49
| <Foxandxss> | c'mon, this is enough |
| 15:26:50
| <inimino> | StephenLynx: take it to pm please |
| 15:26:54
| * Aria | booted StephenLynx (Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.) |
| 15:26:55
| <Foxandxss> | indeed |
| 15:27:19
| <Aria> | Aaaaand this kind of discussion is why women avoid IRC. |
| 15:27:39
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| 15:27:50
| <ggreer> | s/women/most people/ |
| 15:27:57
| <ggreer> | bizarre scrollback |
| 15:28:30
| <ggreer> | anyhoo, I'm glad those tlswrap leaks got fixed in 2.0. it's really helped keep memory usage down |
| 15:28:30
| <Aria> | Welcome to my life! |
| 15:28:34
| <ggreer> | heh |
| 15:28:35
| <Aria> | Yeah! |
| 15:28:43
| <Aria> | indutny_ does amazing work. |
| 15:29:02
| <ggreer> | heap usage went from 500MB to 50 |
| 15:29:08
| <ggreer> | (on my prod machines) |
| 15:29:25
| <Aria> | Yeah. I _think_ our heap on the iojs 2 machine running kappa is running lower than the 0.10 machines. |
| 15:29:27
| <Aria> | I'll have to check. |
| 15:29:54
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| 15:30:21
| <Foxandxss> | I can't barely keep up with iojs releases, yay |
| 15:30:56
| <Aria> | Yeah. The steady state on iojs is lower than node 0.10. |
| 15:31:08
| <Aria> | RSS too, not just V8 heap. |
| 15:31:22
| <Foxandxss> | I just need an script to migrate my global packages |
| 15:31:30
| <Foxandxss> | no more "gulp is not a command" |
| 15:31:51
| <Aria> | (node 0.10, 700-850mb RSS; iojs 2.0.0 381mb) |
| 15:32:10
| <Aria> | Migrate, Foxandxss ? |
| 15:32:30
| <Foxandxss> | wut? is there something I didn't know? |
| 15:32:31
| * Foxandxss | seaches |
| 15:33:39
| <evanlucas> | you may have to install the latest on some packages, but a lot of them should just work |
| 15:33:54
| <Aria> | Indeed. |
| 15:34:23
| <Foxandxss> | truth to be told, I prefer quickly releases than no releases at all |
| 15:34:29
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| 15:34:30
| <evanlucas> | gulp has been working just fine for me too :] |
| 15:34:31
| <ggreer> | yeah, the only package I've had trouble with is fs-ext, and that's because the maintainer is sorta slow with merging pull requests and tagging releases |
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| 15:35:07
| <Foxandxss> | I guess my problem is more because I use nvm so I get a completely new installation after each update |
| 15:35:19
| <Aria> | Aaah, yeah. You can set a different prefix in npm. |
| 15:35:33
| <Aria> | Though anything globally installed that uses native modules will need a rebuild after a change in node. |
| 15:35:35
| <benjamingr> | I clone and build :D |
| 15:35:50
| <Foxandxss> | I see, didn't know that |
| 15:35:54
| <Foxandxss> | will keep reinstalling |
| 15:35:57
| <ggreer> | also clone and build, even on prod systems. cpu time is cheap |
| 15:35:58
| <Aria> | I've currently got iojs just installed, and then for apps that need 0.10 or 0.12, I install them with node-bin into each app. |
| 15:36:06
| <ggreer> | or use dist tarballs |
| 15:36:43
| <Foxandxss> | so far iojs has been compatible with 100% of my work |
| 15:36:45
| <evanlucas> | Aria holy shit node-bin is convenient |
| 15:36:54
| <evanlucas> | thanks! |
| 15:37:10
| <ggreer> | if something doesn't work with io.js, I try to figure out why and submit a PR. it's rare, but I figure if everyone did that then it'd help make io.js more popular |
| 15:37:12
| <benjamingr> | Some platforms just let you host io.js directly like http://www.evennode.com/ |
| 15:37:20
| <Aria> | evanlucas: It's mad science but it works pretty well. |
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| 15:37:33
| <Aria> | evanlucas: Just don't install -g with it. |
| 15:37:35
| <benjamingr> | ggreer: that's a good strategy although I admit that there are issues with native packages that are harder to tackle. |
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| 15:37:49
| <evanlucas> | wonder if there is a way to prevent global install? |
| 15:37:59
| <Aria> | Yeah, there's an environment variable that gets set. |
| 15:38:07
| <ggreer> | yeah. to ensure compatibility with older releases, the only sane thing is to use nan |
| 15:38:10
| <Aria> | I need to go sort that out. PRs to node-bin and node-bin-gen are welcome. |
| 15:38:22
| <Aria> | (It also throws nasty warnings, but works anyway in npm3.) |
| 15:38:23
| <evanlucas> | cool, been looking for some other projects to contribute to :] |
| 15:39:00
| <evanlucas> | got a link to one of the repos? |
| 15:39:00
| <Aria> | If node-bin gets revised, it may require a whole new release series. But that'd be okay. I also want to make it work on Windows, but that's haaaard. |
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| 15:39:14
| <Aria> | https://github.com/aredridel/node-bin-gen |
| 15:39:19
| <Aria> | (It's my hack) |
| 15:40:32
| <evanlucas> | cool |
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| <Aria> | There's iojs-bin too. |
| 15:43:13
| <Aria> | As you'd expect. |
| 15:43:31
| <evanlucas> | hmm, how does this work? |
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| 15:43:59
| <Aria> | It has a preinstall script that runs a local npm install. |
| 15:44:19
| <Aria> | so install node-bin, it runs a script to figure out the arch, which installs the "real" package. |
| 15:44:24
| <Aria> | It relies on binary re-exporting. Which is an utter hack. |
| 15:44:48
| <Aria> | So it specifies in its package.json bin: { node: 'node_modules/.bin/node' }, |
| 15:44:51
| <evanlucas> | interesting |
| 15:45:05
| <Aria> | Which happens to be where npm links the bin of a subpackage. |
| 15:45:29
| <Aria> | Cleaner ways to do this that don't throw warnings about "bin not present in package" would be welcome. |
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| 15:46:13
| <Aria> | This came out of a conversation at Nodeconf Oneshot Budapest where someone said "Why can't we install node with npm?!" and I decided to see if it was possible. |
| 15:46:19
| <Aria> | Ugly PoC but works. |
| 15:46:51
| <evanlucas> | why not publish the actual binaries for each distro/arch. Then the bin script would actually be present |
| 15:46:55
| <evanlucas> | be a lot of publishing though |
| 15:48:07
| <Aria> | They are published. |
| 15:48:14
| <Aria> | (node-linux-x86_64, etc.) |
| 15:48:17
| <evanlucas> | ah gotcha |
| 15:48:24
| <Aria> | the indirection is needed so you can depend on "node" but not "node for my arch" |
| 15:48:29
| <Aria> | Because I develop on mac and deploy on linux often. |
| 15:48:35
| <evanlucas> | yea that makes sense |
| 15:49:01
| <evanlucas> | that is awesome |
| 15:49:01
| <Aria> | (if you don't need that indirection, it's much less a hack. I can 100% endorse depending on node-linux-x86_64 if that's what your app needs.) |
| 15:49:19
| <Aria> | er. node-linux-x64. |
| 15:49:26
| <Aria> | Yeah. Elegant hack I thought. |
| 15:49:32
| <evanlucas> | what about using optional dependencies? |
| 15:49:36
| <evanlucas> | too many error messages? |
| 15:49:49
| <Aria> | Not sure that's a useful concept. |
| 15:50:05
| <Aria> | "I depend on this but it's okay if it's not there(!?)" |
| 15:50:12
| <Aria> | Not sure it gets one anything. |
| 15:50:45
| <evanlucas> | i guess the other option would be to include all of the binaries for each version in a single package |
| 15:50:48
| <evanlucas> | but that's a lot of overhead |
| 15:52:12
| <Aria> | Yep. |
| 15:52:36
| <Aria> | Or using a shell script shim so there's always a binary to export. |
| 15:52:53
| <Aria> | Or getting npm to adjust when it checks to see if things are present -- or give a postunpack but prepreinstall lifecycle. |
| 15:53:01
| <Aria> | Lots of possibilities. |
| 15:53:09
| <evanlucas> | yea |
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| 15:54:42
| <ljharb> | Aria: thank you. that particular troll was banned long ago from the node channel for the same thing. |
| 15:54:48
| <ChALkeR> | ggreer: Good to hear. I'm in process of updating to 2.0 atm =). |
| 15:54:53
| <Aria> | :/ |
| 15:54:59
| <Aria> | You're welcome, ljharb. |
| 15:55:08
| <ljharb> | actually both of them were. |
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| 16:09:55
| <evanlucas> | Aria there are a couple to help remove *some* warnings :] |
| 16:10:32
| <Aria> | Yup! |
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| 16:11:34
| <Foxandxss> | Aria: textual? (irc client) |
| 16:11:39
| <Aria> | Yup. |
| 16:11:43
| <Foxandxss> | I love that ban message |
| 16:11:50
| <Aria> | Me too. It sums it up so well. |
| 16:11:53
| <Foxandxss> | indeed |
| 16:12:01
| <Aria> | Thought about customizing it, then realized it was perfect. |
| 16:12:19
| <Foxandxss> | I banned someone from a spanish channel and asked me if I feel clever with an english ban message, omg |
| 16:13:24
| <Foxandxss> | but 99% of the time when I ban someone at angularjs is for that exact reason, perfect message |
| 16:13:30
| <Foxandxss> | the other 1%, meh, could work too |
| 16:15:38
| <Aria> | Yup. |
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| 16:21:42
| <evanlucas> | Fishrock123 ever get the npm test script working? |
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| <Aria> | evanlucas: You've got commit access to node-bin-gen |
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| <evanlucas> | wow, thanks! |
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| 16:33:52
| <ChALkeR> | Does npm has any known memory issues? |
| 16:33:56
| <ChALkeR> | *have |
| 16:34:30
| <bnoordhuis> | it can be forgetful at times |
| 16:34:32
| <ChALkeR> | For me, npm install takes more memory than installing deps one by one. |
| 16:34:37
| <evanlucas> | I think I remember seeing a few issues on with install in memory constrained environments a while back. othiym23 may be able to shed more light on that |
| 16:34:42
| <bnoordhuis> | but i see that's not what you mean :) |
| 16:34:52
| <ChALkeR> | bnoordhuis: ;-) |
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| <opleat1> | hello, does anybody know who do I have to talk to about translation? (I noticed on the bottom of the page that the site is translated into multiple languages ...) |
| 16:34:58
| <Aria> | ChALkeR: It certainly isn't very careful with memory, and tends to be massively parallel. |
| 16:35:00
| <evanlucas> | lol |
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| <ChALkeR> | Aria: Ah, that. It explains things, thanks! |
| 16:35:19
| <Aria> | ChALkeR: So one-by-one is in fact lower memory use. But less aware of deduping the final tree |
| 16:35:46
| <Aria> | opleat1: There's a whole localiization working group -- the github issues have lots of discussion. |
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| <opleat1> | @aria thanks, I'll take a look |
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| 16:38:52
| <ChALkeR> | Aria: The other part of the problem is that npm does not notice that some tasks failed due to memory isues. |
| 16:38:56
| <ChALkeR> | *issues |
| 16:39:12
| <ChALkeR> | Let me test it again. |
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| <Aria> | Oh that is a bug! |
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| 16:50:47
| <Fishrock123> | evanlucas: no not yet :s |
| 16:51:03
| <evanlucas> | got a link to what you have so far? |
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| 16:52:03
| <Fishrock123> | evanlucas: yeah same as yesterday: https://gist.github.com/Fishrock123/ed09c0529d209b0ebb8d |
| 16:52:19
| <evanlucas> | are you running this against master? |
| 16:52:27
| <Fishrock123> | you also need to update makefile to call tools/test-npm.sh tho |
| 16:52:29
| <Fishrock123> | yeah |
| 16:52:33
| <Fishrock123> | master-ish |
| 16:52:45
| <Fishrock123> | (and pass in NODE_EXE) |
| 16:52:50
| <evanlucas> | ok, let me see what I can come up with |
| 16:53:00
| <Fishrock123> | It really needs teaking more though |
| 16:53:21
| <Fishrock123> | I was going to try to change it today so that it doesn't even do the install and tests in deps/npm but rather a copy of that |
| 16:53:33
| <ChALkeR> | Aria: By «does not notice» I mean that further «npm install» runs do not install things that are broken. |
| 16:53:49
| <Aria> | ChALkeR: Correct. It's not deeply validating. Sadly. |
| 16:54:00
| <Aria> | ChALkeR: npm3 will help some of this -- it's much better about not half-installing things. |
| 16:54:10
| <Aria> | (try the multi-stage branch, report breakage you find.) |
| 16:54:13
| <ChALkeR> | Ah, so no need to file a report for now. |
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| 16:54:58
| <Aria> | Yeah. iarna and othiym23 are doing some great work on npm multi-stage, and it's much more rigorous with the new design. |
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| <ChALkeR> | Thanks =) |
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| 16:59:44
| <evanlucas> | Fishrock123 found it :] |
| 16:59:51
| <Fishrock123> | o.o |
| 16:59:54
| <evanlucas> | "${pwd}" should be "$(pwd)" |
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| 17:00:05
| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: know of an example for the minimum possible to create a new Isolate, Context, etc. and run a simple script? |
| 17:00:07
| * Fishrock123 | is not that good at shell |
| 17:00:20
| <Fishrock123> | evanlucas: i though the braces were for when you put it in strings? |
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| 17:01:01
| <evanlucas> | pwd is a command though. don't think curly braces actually evaluate it |
| 17:01:02
| <evanlucas> | https://gist.github.com/evanlucas/b83d12c2a41d8757f9c1 |
| 17:01:30
| <evanlucas> | also had to make a few others changes to the mkdir |
| 17:01:40
| <evanlucas> | on OS X, it kept trying to mkdir /npm-cache |
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| 17:03:34
| <Fishrock123> | evanlucas: that is correct, those were made in the io.js root dir |
| 17:04:02
| <evanlucas> | tests just finished...passed for me with the updated script |
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| <ofrobots> | @trevnorris: would this example fit your criteria: https://developers.google.com/v8/get_started |
| 17:05:56
| <trevnorris> | ofrobots: ah, awesome. thanks. |
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| 17:08:31
| <bnoordhuis> | trevnorris: i thought there was a hello world example on the v8 wiki but i can't find it |
| 17:09:38
| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: ofrobots found a good one. now just working around getting libplatform/libplatform.h included. |
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| <trevnorris> | bugger. hate getting hung up on #include dependencies. |
| 17:15:34
| <Aria> | #include dependencies are the worst. |
| 17:15:44
| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: sorry, one more. i'm #include <libplatform/libplatform.h> from a module, but that then complains it can't find #include "include/v8-platform.h" |
| 17:15:45
| <Aria> | Doubly so on linux where there's like three or four layers of indirection |
| 17:16:08
| <trevnorris> | Aria: yeah. and, TBH, it's when I feel the most dumb. like, how am I seriously getting hung up on this step. |
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| 17:16:42
| <Aria> | Heh, yeah. And yet it's actually the biggest barrier. |
| 17:17:18
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| 17:17:48
| <trevnorris> | Fishrock123: problem here is that I need to include a path in my binding.gyp, but not sure what path. |
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| 17:18:18
| <Fishrock123> | ah, yeah I'm not really of help there XD |
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| <bnoordhuis> | trevnorris: it should work if you add deps/v8 to include_dirs |
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| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: thought so to. have "include_dirs": ["deps/v8"] in my binding.gyp but still complains. |
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| 17:42:23
| <Aria> | evanlucas: And npm publish rights |
| 17:42:44
| <evanlucas> | Aria cool, thanks. Wasn't sure if you wanted PRs still or what :] |
| 17:43:26
| <Aria> | Oh, I love seeing what you're doing. But it's a mad science project with a tiny interface. Hard to break, low impact if it does. |
| 17:43:36
| <evanlucas> | lol, ok |
| 17:43:50
| <Aria> | (I really do believe in open open source.) |
| 17:44:17
| <evanlucas> | wouldn't it be great to do it for a living? |
| 17:44:42
| <Aria> | Hehe. Living that dream right now, ish. |
| 17:44:47
| <Aria> | Open source anyway. |
| 17:45:06
| <evanlucas> | jealous |
| 17:45:14
| <evanlucas> | kindof my dream job |
| 17:46:08
| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: fixes it if I put the full path to deps/v8 in the include_dirs. ah well. |
| 17:46:36
| <bnoordhuis> | evanlucas: it's like any other job, the glamour wears off |
| 17:47:01
| <evanlucas> | interesting |
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| 17:47:51
| <trevnorris> | Domenic: know if there's a way to submit changes to pages like https://developers.google.com/v8/get_started ? |
| 17:48:09
| <trevnorris> | it needs --std=c++0x -ldl to compile w/ latest V8, but aren't in the instructions. |
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| 17:55:45
| <Aria> | Yeah, open source is highly social sometimes exhausting work. |
| 17:55:46
| <Aria> | But I love it. |
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| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: strange. guess Platform* only needs to be initialized once per application, not once per thread. |
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| <evanlucas> | Aria are you keeping node-bin-gen versions in-sync with iojs versions? |
| 18:00:31
| <Aria> | Nope. 2.0.0 is just "major 2"\ |
| 18:00:48
| <Aria> | I broke interface, I bumped. |
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| <bnoordhuis> | trevnorris: that's right |
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| <evanlucas> | ah gotcha |
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| <Fishrock123> | evanlucas: made a new pr with the new script file: https://github.com/iojs/io.js/pull/1662 |
| 18:05:35
| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: does that mean V8::Initialize() only needs to run once per application as well? |
| 18:07:19
| <evanlucas> | Fishrock123 cool taking a look now |
| 18:07:53
| <evanlucas> | Aria node-bin-gen@2.0.1 published. Will take a look at windows support soon |
| 18:08:09
| <Aria> | Oh wow! |
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| <Aria> | Let me know if you need anything to make it work. |
| 18:08:43
| <evanlucas> | thanks, just got to get this vm up and running |
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| <bnoordhuis> | trevnorris: yes |
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| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: cool thanks. |
| 18:23:28
| <thefourtheye> | Aria: evanlucas Shouldn't the README file include `npm install` step to complete the installation? |
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| <evanlucas> | thefourtheye the does |
| 18:24:32
| <evanlucas> | s/the/it |
| 18:25:04
| <thefourtheye> | Usage message says only `node-bin-gen {node,iojs}-{platform}-{arch} version` |
| 18:25:26
| <thefourtheye> | It just downloads the gz file and writes the package.json, right? |
| 18:25:45
| <Aria> | Yeah. |
| 18:25:55
| <Aria> | It's really a tool I use to generate the specific arch packages. |
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| <thefourtheye> | Ah, the tool name is just `gen`. Then it makes sense :-) |
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| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: should I add a --without-snapshot option to the configuration if it's enabled by default? |
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| <Fishrock123> | trevnorris: you mean re-add? most people semm to disable it with that from the node days for some reason |
| 18:38:32
| <trevnorris> | Fishrock123: yeah. it's getting re-enabled. |
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| <Fishrock123> | like, my ninja aliases still run --without-snapshot |
| 18:39:22
| <trevnorris> | biggest thing it affects is creating new Contexts (so vm module) |
| 18:39:36
| <trevnorris> | performance of creating them, that it |
| 18:39:38
| <trevnorris> | *is |
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| 18:41:54
| <bnoordhuis> | trevnorris: that would be best yes. snapshots have been problematic in the past on arm and mips |
| 18:42:28
| <trevnorris> | sounds good. thanks |
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| <bnoordhuis> | http://blog.nodejs.org/2015/05/08/next-chapter/ - maybe not a complete suprise but tj is stepping down |
| 18:52:23
| <bnoordhuis> | er, surprise. typing the r on this keyboard is had |
| 18:52:50
| <Aria> | Aww. Nice post. |
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| <ggreer> | that post struct me as really weird. it seems disconnected from reality |
| 18:57:34
| <ggreer> | *struck |
| 18:57:37
| <ggreer> | too much C |
| 18:57:46
| <silv3rwind> | And not a single io.js mention was had that day. |
| 18:58:07
| <Aria> | Oh quite. |
| 18:58:24
| <Aria> | If we had more users, that'd help ;-) |
| 18:59:11
| * Fishrock123 | isn't sure it would in that way, but oh well |
| 18:59:20
| <Fishrock123> | it doesn't _really_ matter |
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| <ggreer> | what's that word for conspicuously not mentioning something? I thought it was syllepsis, but that's not it |
| 19:00:23
| <Fishrock123> | ggreer: MEH, LET'S NOT WORRY OURSELVES ABOUT IT\ |
| 19:00:25
| <Fishrock123> | oops |
| 19:00:33
| <Fishrock123> | not supposed to be in caps, sorry. |
| 19:00:36
| <ggreer> | haha |
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| <silv3rwind> | The first rule of Joyent Club: You do not talk about io.js. |
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| <konobi> | bnoordhuis: and sounds like he's departing joyent too... at least that's what the joyent post sounds like |
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| <bnoordhuis> | konobi: yes, that's what i gather from this blog post -> https://www.joyent.com/blog/transitions |
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| <konobi> | yup |
| 19:11:20
| <bnoordhuis> | i cannot read that without hearing the voice of dr. evil in my head. that's exactly what scott hammond sounds like, dr. evil |
| 19:11:42
| <bnoordhuis> | he should do a youtube video singing "just the two of us". i'd upvote that |
| 19:12:04
| <konobi> | never met him... *shrug* |
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| <ggreer> | http://venturebeat.com/2015/05/08/node-lead-tj-fontaine-is-stepping-down-and-leaving-joyent-too/ |
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| 19:36:52
| <ncthom91> | hey bnoordhuis you around? You helped me a bunch the other day with v8 isolates, libuv's thread pool, etc in a node addon and I wanted to ask you a few follow up questions if possible |
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| <ggreer> | http://blog.nodejs.org/2014/01/16/nodejs-road-ahead/ <-- tj's first blog post as maintainer. brings back memories of hope and change |
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| <inex> | iojs 2.0.0? neat |
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| <bnoordhuis> | ncthom91: what's up? |
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| <ncthom91> | bnoordhuis hey :) so I put my code on github so I could point you to what I've written: https://github.com/nick-thompson/jetpack. So far it just evals some javascript in new isolates/contexts in the existing thread pool |
| 20:13:08
| <ncthom91> | https://github.com/nick-thompson/jetpack/blob/master/src/hive.cc that's the interesting file |
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| <ncthom91> | and the thing that I really want to figure out is how to set up the context so that the Node API's are available to the scripts that I'm running: https://github.com/nick-thompson/jetpack/blob/master/src/hive.cc#L33-L40 |
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| 20:14:25
| <ncthom91> | for example, if you run a script there that has a `require` statement, the app errors & segfaults |
| 20:14:47
| <ncthom91> | i've been looking through the iojs source looking for an example, but it all seems deeply wrapped in this Environment class |
| 20:15:13
| <bnoordhuis> | ncthom91: correct. and you really can't atm, io.js and node.js are not fully MT-safe |
| 20:15:30
| <bnoordhuis> | io.js is a lot closer than node.js in that respect but it's not 100% there yet |
| 20:15:53
| <bnoordhuis> | however, you could look at petka's workers PR - and review it while you're there :) |
| 20:15:54
| <ncthom91> | bnoordhuis even if you're running in entirely different isolates? |
| 20:16:01
| <bnoordhuis> | let met look it up |
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| <bnoordhuis> | ncthom91: https://github.com/iojs/io.js/pull/1159 |
| 20:16:47
| <ncthom91> | heh, i've been writing C++ for about 4 days now. Not sure you want a code review from me |
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| <bnoordhuis> | more eyeballs never hurt |
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| 20:18:25
| <ncthom91> | bnoordhuis so there's nothing I can do to in this example project to build separate node contexsts for this thread pool? |
| 20:19:08
| <joshbuddy> | bnoordhuis: awesome that you’re implementing the worker interface |
| 20:19:14
| <joshbuddy> | hope you get good binary support going too |
| 20:19:25
| <joshbuddy> | aka, transferrables |
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| 20:20:53
| <bnoordhuis> | well, it's not me, it's petka's work. i just reviewed it (and only partially at that) |
| 20:21:13
| <bnoordhuis> | unless that was a generic 'you' :) |
| 20:21:21
| <joshbuddy> | lol. oh YOU |
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| <joshbuddy> | just reading this patch. very exciting. i think i might have to finally abandon nodejs when this lands. |
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| 20:26:47
| <bnoordhuis> | ncthom91: not sure if it's useful to you but there is support for multiple contexts - but only when you're an embedder |
| 20:27:05
| <bnoordhuis> | it's what atom and nw.js use to have a node "process" per tab |
| 20:27:38
| <ncthom91> | bnoordhuis theoretically I could properly "embed" v8 in a local copy of node or iojs right? |
| 20:28:32
| <bnoordhuis> | ncthom91: sorry, no; what i mean is the multi-context support when you embed io.js in another application |
| 20:28:48
| <bnoordhuis> | you can build it as a static libary and then link it into another program |
| 20:28:55
| <ncthom91> | oh i see |
| 20:29:57
| <ncthom91> | hmm, that's a real bummer. I might go back to my idea of N node processes where the first maps a shared mem segment for the others |
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| <ncthom91> | bnoordhuis do you know the state of jxcore? My goal in all of this is that I have computationally intensive work that I want to offload to other threads or processes for performance purposes |
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| <bnoordhuis> | ncthom91: no idea, sorry |
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| 20:35:34
| <Aria> | ncthom91: Are you in a place where the serialization overhead of transmitting work over a socket / stdio is a problem? |
| 20:37:17
| <ncthom91> | Aria not necessarily, but some of the data to be transmitted could be big (i.e. 2MB files) enough where serialization would have noticable effects |
| 20:38:27
| <Aria> | Hmm. I find that that is seldom the case unless you have to buffer the whole thing in the master / coordinating process. |
| 20:38:44
| <Aria> | For a great many workloads, there's a simple, isolated, process-and-io-based way to do it. |
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| <ncthom91> | Aria the master process would indeed buffer every file... I could theoretically pass file paths to worker child processes and the workers read the file from disk, process them, etc, but then the result of the work needs to be aggregated |
| 20:40:46
| <evanlucas> | Aria: got windows working!!!! doesn't work using git-bash though |
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| <Aria> | ncthom91: Yep. Though buffering incrementally rather than the whole file usually suffices. It depends on the task! |
| 20:41:39
| <Aria> | Passing paths rather than content is often a good way, too. |
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| <trevnorris> | how long does the raspbi build usually take? |
| 20:44:17
| <Fishrock123> | trevnorris: pi1 or 2? on the ci? |
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| 20:44:30
| <trevnorris> | Fishrock123: on the CI. it's been blinking for an hour now |
| 20:44:36
| <evanlucas> | Aria an install after manually packing it generates the .bin/node file looking like https://gist.github.com/evanlucas/f2c9b6ef407481680245 |
| 20:44:42
| <trevnorris> | Fishrock123: https://jenkins-iojs.nodesource.com/job/iojs+any-pr+multi/656/ |
| 20:44:43
| <silv3rwind> | 6 hrs on real hardware at least :P |
| 20:45:19
| <Fishrock123> | trevnorris: ~2h, now that ccache is pretty warmed up, but it may be much longer if enabling snapshots has to do lots of extra work |
| 20:45:42
| <trevnorris> | not really. enabling snapshots and rebuilding on my i7 takes 10sec |
| 20:45:43
| <Fishrock123> | I think? |
| 20:45:51
| <Fishrock123> | or was I mistaken in seeing a 2h run? |
| 20:46:01
| <silv3rwind> | I don't think ccache is active |
| 20:46:04
| <Aria> | evanlucas: Yep. A cmd stub. |
| 20:46:09
| <silv3rwind> | build 649: Took 7 hr 55 min on iojs-nodesource-raspbian-wheezy-pi1-1 |
| 20:46:10
| <trevnorris> | cool. then I won't worry about it then and just let it run. |
| 20:46:21
| <Fishrock123> | ohh that was a failure |
| 20:46:31
| <trevnorris> | holy sh... alright, guess we'll see the results tomorrow. |
| 20:46:33
| <Fishrock123> | trevnorris: yeah your looking at 7 or so hours, haha |
| 20:46:33
| <evanlucas> | The stub doesn't work though, says no such file or directory. Running the actual file works fine though |
| 20:46:55
| <Fishrock123> | silv3rwind: it;s active, I asked rvagg about it recently |
| 20:47:04
| <trevnorris> | oh wait. this is great. the build actually finished. it's just running the tests. |
| 20:47:27
| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: were the problems w/ snapshots on armv6 with the build or the tests? |
| 20:47:56
| <Fishrock123> | oh, huh. usually the build takes the majority of the time?? |
| 20:48:14
| <rvagg> | Fishrock123, silv3rwind: tests take a very long time to run, ccache only helps with the compile obviously - also there are 2 original Pi's and one Pi+ in that cluster so if you get the originals then you're going to run a lot slower |
| 20:48:22
| <rvagg> | I need to ask for donations of Pi+, we have plenty of Pi2 now |
| 20:48:41
| <bnoordhuis> | trevnorris: they were build related, the snapshotting step would fail |
| 20:48:45
| <Fishrock123> | huh, usually i saw it take long in compile |
| 20:48:51
| <ncthom91> | Aria what did you mean buffering incrementally? |
| 20:48:56
| <trevnorris> | bnoordhuis: awesome. then it looks like snapshots now work. |
| 20:49:20
| <Aria> | ncthom91: Rather than waitiing for a 2mb file to be sent for aggregation, receiving it and passing it on. |
| 20:49:29
| <Aria> | ncthom91: streaming rather than whole-file callback |
| 20:49:41
| <ncthom91> | Aria ah, right. |
| 20:49:54
| <Fishrock123> | trevnorris: the snapshot run though has identical test failures on both windows machines |
| 20:50:12
| <trevnorris> | Fishrock123: that's probably because I botched the .bat file. |
| 20:50:20
| <thefourtheye> | benjamingr: Happy Birthday man :😃 (Hope today is your real birthday) |
| 20:50:28
| <silv3rwind> | rvagg: ah, understood. so trev got lucky there. |
| 20:50:37
| <benjamingr> | Thanks, it's in an hour, just leaving for a beer :) |
| 20:50:51
| <thefourtheye> | Enjoy :-) |
| 20:51:30
| <trevnorris> | Fishrock123: oh, it's because of cp stuff. are those expected failures? |
| 20:52:16
| <Fishrock123> | there are no expected failures atm, iirc, though a couple timeouts occasionally pop up |
| 20:52:21
| <trevnorris> | they're failed on 655 as well |
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| 20:53:02
| <Fishrock123> | not on https://jenkins-iojs.nodesource.com/view/iojs/job/iojs+any-pr+multi/654/ though |
| 20:53:12
| <trevnorris> | yeah. i'm confused what could be going on. |
| 20:53:20
| <trevnorris> | check the output. it looks like it finished: https://jenkins-iojs.nodesource.com/job/iojs+any-pr+multi/656/nodes=win2008r2/tapTestReport/test.tap-19/ |
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| 20:56:48
| <trevnorris> | building and testing on my win8 vm now |
| 20:57:31
| <Fishrock123> | trevnorris: this one has the most info maybe? https://jenkins-iojs.nodesource.com/job/iojs+any-pr+multi/656/nodes=win2008r2/tapTestReport/test.tap-46/ no clue |
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| <trevnorris> | from the looks of tap, the test is finishing but then the processes hangs open. trying to reproduce now. |
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| <trevnorris> | Fishrock123: test-child-process-double-pipe failing on master for me on windows 8. AssertionError: '' == 'hellO\r\nnOde\r\nwOrld\r\n' |
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| <trevnorris> | so nothing to do w/ my patch. |
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| <Fishrock123> | huh |
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| <kellytk> | I'm interested in the open governance model of io.js, over the corporate stewardship model of node.js. I think there is probably room for both, so I think it was smart to do something different with io.js. |
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| <mikeal_> | node.js is off that model now though, and is moving to our model with a foundation |
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| <StephenLynx> | look at that, you unbanned me. Shouldn't have bothered, I dont want to hand around extremists that claim for diversity but don't tolerate anyone who thinks different. Aria |
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| <StephenLynx> | hang* |
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| <Fishrock123> | what |
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| <kellytk> | mikeal_: Is it intended that io.js will continue? I didn't find that in the FAQ |
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| <mikeal_> | this is all up in the air at the moment |
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| <mikeal_> | i'm advocating that we join the foundation and eventually merge |
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| <kellytk> | I think if the foundation genuinely recognizes value in open governance, and shows it, merging could benefit everyone |
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| <mikeal_> | the governance model for the foundation is exactly our open governance model |
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| <mikeal_> | people from io.js, node.js and the linux foundation worked on it together |
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| <kellytk> | It's hard for me to envision open source software projects being managed in any other way IMHO |
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| <kellytk> | That's promising |
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| <konobi> | mikeal_++ |
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