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11:31:17  <lisbeth>Sorry I'm too poor to afford a virtual machine right now
11:31:30  <lisbeth>and too nocturnal to be awake when most developers are awake
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11:35:51  <John[Lisbeth]>the problem with using manta as the thing I described last night is is it not quite designed how I described it
11:36:06  <John[Lisbeth]>what I described was a distribution of GNU with a kernel that uses the cloud as resources
11:36:38  <John[Lisbeth]>whereas manta seems to be more focused on big data and databases and it is achieved it seems by localizing the unix commands to each database so that they can be used independently
11:36:46  <John[Lisbeth]>thus cutting the bottleneck of the network
11:37:07  <John[Lisbeth]>Ineed the network is it's self the bottleneck in a version of GNU like I describe
11:37:11  <John[Lisbeth]>*indeed
11:38:15  <John[Lisbeth]>the network is extremely expensive and only the most minimal amount of data can pass between it
11:38:26  <John[Lisbeth]>unlike the bus of a computer which is very fast
11:39:07  <John[Lisbeth]>However I do believe manta could be made to encorperate more of unix into databases and make it more kernel-like
11:40:16  <John[Lisbeth]>The problem manta tries to solve as described in the orgy of oneliners talk is that you simply can't kick around a file that is gigabytes large.
11:40:31  <John[Lisbeth]>Unless we come up with some magic network technology we have to process certain data locally
11:40:56  <John[Lisbeth]>but the problem with doing it locally is synchronizing across n files on x machines of y gigabytes
11:41:49  <John[Lisbeth]>what manta sort of does is is handles this synchonization for you while making it appear as if you are just using a normal shell command
11:42:19  <John[Lisbeth]>I do not know how accurate this model is, and furthermore if is model is accurate, I don't know how much of unix can be ported this way
11:43:30  <John[Lisbeth]>any illusions of these files being on the same machine would have to eventually break down when you are dealing with large files which are not on the same machine
11:43:51  <John[Lisbeth]>but for certain applications or applications with small amounts of data this would not matter
11:45:00  <John[Lisbeth]>but once you have a file which is on a single computer and you've got awk on that computer there is no reason why you can't use awk on that file
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11:46:00  <John[Lisbeth]>It's sort of like these unix programs were designed to work with unix and so when you try to apply them to cloud services you have to plug them into all kinds of protocols
11:46:20  <John[Lisbeth]>and when you use manta to use awk on a file it puts awk in a unix-like environment and gives it a unix-like file
11:47:15  <John[Lisbeth]>What concernes me is getting the maximum number of parts of unix ported over this way so each database has it's own copy of unix which has it's own copy of awk or sed or grep or ed or dc or what have you
11:47:43  <John[Lisbeth]>and second is if it is impossible to port the entire unix in a way that makes your various resources seem as if they are ordinary files in your path on a single computer
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11:48:56  <John[Lisbeth]>one problem in doing this is to make sure that each copy of unix in each resource will behave the same way when scripted collectively
11:49:55  <John[Lisbeth]>making even seemingly identical unixes to behave the same way can be difficult because of how complex unix is
11:50:33  <John[Lisbeth]>another problem is components of the gnu os where the advantages of manta break down and cause too much lag from there being a network gap
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11:54:04  <John[Lisbeth]>naturally there must be some parts of GNU which do not work well using this design philosophy and some parts wihch work very well
11:54:33  <John[Lisbeth]>the confusing thing is that if someone was given this technology without knowing what it does they might see the shell and assume they were in a virtual machine and try to start programming it as if it were a virtual machine
11:54:44  <John[Lisbeth]>yet for some things you would use a virtual machine for it should not work
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