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16:06:45  <John[Lisbeth]>Manta is a very important level of achievement
16:07:12  <John[Lisbeth]>It allows you to take resources from many objects in many virtual machine and treat those resources as if it was on one linux machine with a shell
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16:07:35  <John[Lisbeth]>databases already have this structure where you can represent what is in your database as a filepath
16:08:35  <John[Lisbeth]>I think with things we see like manta we will see unix bootstrapped ontop of cloud services rather than ontop of containerized components running in virtualized components
16:08:59  <John[Lisbeth]>though the services we use to build the unix will probably be containers
16:09:17  <John[Lisbeth]>Having acces to a this kind of unix is an awesome power
16:09:31  <John[Lisbeth]>This is becuase it is a unix that can scale as large as the cloud can currently scale
16:09:54  <John[Lisbeth]>Currently there is such a thing as a largest vitual machine on the market and it will only give you so many resources before you must purchase another virtual machine
16:10:23  <John[Lisbeth]>wheras a joyent shell is not a virtual machine or a container. it is a cloud machine using the cloud as hardware
16:10:39  <John[Lisbeth]>It is the biggest unix mainframe you could possibly imagine
16:11:03  <John[Lisbeth]>And multiple isntances of it can work sychronously and asynchronously across multiple datacenters
16:11:31  <John[Lisbeth]>A joynent shell gives you permission to scale up to more unix than money can buy
16:12:40  <John[Lisbeth]>Can you imagine the power if someone as powerful as Bill Gates sat down at one of these machines, compared to the modem terminals he had as a kid?
16:12:52  <John[Lisbeth]>Bill gates could spend a million executing one program
16:13:37  <John[Lisbeth]>If he felt like it he could just write an AI in awk using a pipeline and just give it unbounded access to this unix and watch it churn away dollars
16:15:13  <John[Lisbeth]>It is like a container is as big as it is until it reaches the maximum capacity of the vm's resources, and also a joynet shell can be designed to be as big as it is until it fills up all the datacenters in the world
16:16:14  <John[Lisbeth]>thus the maximum power of a joyent shell is roughly the average power of all the datacenters in the world in 2017 and doubled for every two years you add
16:17:12  <chorrell>John[Lisbeth] are you talking to anyone in particular?
16:17:40  <John[Lisbeth]>Not particularly I am just excited about the concept of opening up a shell in joyent
16:18:08  <chorrell>well, that's great!
16:18:28  <chorrell>but for the last few minutes I've been wondering if you were a bot
16:18:39  <John[Lisbeth]>I am human I am human beep boop
16:19:04  <John[Lisbeth]>Syntax error: because phek u that's why
16:19:20  <John[Lisbeth]>No I'm not a bot. I study the unix way of programming
16:19:43  <John[Lisbeth]>I came across the orgy of one liners talk two years ago while researching the unix way but the language was too advanced at the time for me to understand it
16:20:05  <John[Lisbeth]>And now coming back and rewatching it I have a better concept of what joyent can do
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16:20:59  <John[Lisbeth]>Of course the things I am designing may be a little bit more than what the current joyent does but the technology seems to be there to do what I am describing
16:24:01  <John[Lisbeth]>there seems to be a movement to build an operating system on top of cloud services slowly growing. Whereas Joyent seems to take unix and plop it onto a certaion portion of the cloud.
16:24:06  <John[Lisbeth]>recycling the old hardened software
16:26:12  <John[Lisbeth]>it makes the cloud into one big mainframe again. You can think about it like a timesharing system just like any other timesharing system. And the timesharing is now divided up into dollar amounts. You can imagine a unix system like this which has some kind of idea of processes as well as subshells which open other joyent shells in the background.
16:27:26  <John[Lisbeth]>What is really necessary is a kernel which communicates with the "hardware" which is cloud services, and the "software" which is GNU
16:28:04  <John[Lisbeth]>The software need not worry about how memory gets allocated or where files really get stored. Software is just assured that this will be handled by the kernel.
16:28:50  <John[Lisbeth]>better kernel squeezes more bang for your buck out of cloud services
16:30:58  <nahamu>John[Lisbeth]: have you solved any interesting problems with Manta?
16:31:07  <John[Lisbeth]>I work on something different
16:31:17  <John[Lisbeth]>I study the unix way of programming using shell pipes.
16:31:31  <nahamu>When it came out I was very excited about it, but haven't had any problems to solve that were a good fit.
16:32:00  <John[Lisbeth]>I think most programming strategies only work 80% of the time, perhaps even this one.
16:32:24  <John[Lisbeth]>For example design patterns can help you to solve maybe 80% of your problems but 20% they may not be very helpful
16:32:29  <nahamu>Sure. I was just curious if your excitement was similar to mine based purely on the tech, or if you'd actually applied it to something interesting.
16:32:44  <John[Lisbeth]>I am only 22 I do not have much work experience
16:32:59  <John[Lisbeth]>Only playing around with linux and doing IaaS pretending to be dev ops
16:34:35  <John[Lisbeth]>I think I do not orient my thoughts around what problem I am trying to solve 100% of the time
16:34:45  <nahamu>I've seen articles on using it for log processing.
16:34:50  <John[Lisbeth]>when i am helping another person they have a problem they are trying to solve, whereas that is not how I think in order to solve my own problems
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16:35:10  <nahamu>Well, it's nice to see someone excited about Manta. :)
16:35:23  <John[Lisbeth]>One of the things I try to do is look at patterns and I see people continually building operating system-like things out of cloud services
16:35:56  <John[Lisbeth]>I have seen a few repl type things in the cloud that behave sort of like manta does
16:36:02  <John[Lisbeth]>But manta is different.
16:36:11  <John[Lisbeth]>What manta started to do was say we are gonna just put unix on this.
16:36:22  <John[Lisbeth]>I mean why wouldn't you run GNU on the cloud
16:36:59  <John[Lisbeth]>Where this comes really in handy is when you enter a bash shell running on unix in the cloud
16:37:15  <John[Lisbeth]>Your system is not a virtual machine anymore. it is unix as a cloud service
16:37:42  <John[Lisbeth]>it is a cloud operating system
16:37:45  <jperkin>that's not really what manta is
16:37:57  <John[Lisbeth]>That is not what it is but that is what it is close to doing
16:38:04  <John[Lisbeth]>Joyent does something much more specific
16:38:07  <John[Lisbeth]>but the template is there
16:38:15  <John[Lisbeth]>database = storage
16:38:27  <John[Lisbeth]>virtual machine = processsing && ram
16:38:49  <John[Lisbeth]>or rather something like kubernetes being being processing && ram
16:39:20  <John[Lisbeth]>A unix who's kernel gets resources from the cloud
16:39:59  <John[Lisbeth]>When you plop gnu on this kernel it should think it is running on a machine and it is, but the memory capacity of that machine is as big as all the databases in the world for more money than you can afford
16:41:16  <John[Lisbeth]>because cloud services can just keep giving resources to whoever want them, multiple versions of these kernels can run
16:42:54  <John[Lisbeth]>But you are as far as you are concerned on a computer with limitless resources. Such a computer, if it could be designed, and was designed correctly, could compile something as large as you want, or run really super large compute tasks without any kind of disributed computer knowledge. Someone who uses unix has got distributed computing this way. Every bash shell user has got it.
16:43:25  <John[Lisbeth]>So when you want a subshell the kernel just asks the cloud services for more resources from the subshell
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16:44:16  <John[Lisbeth]>this would probably not be a 64 bit kernel we were talking about either
16:44:32  <John[Lisbeth]>such a kernel may be able to afford many more bits
16:48:13  <John[Lisbeth]>For example when such a unix wanted to use the network it would just resolve it for you
16:48:23  <John[Lisbeth]>you could have your wgets and whatnot
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