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08:05:41  <yorkieneil>Hi, guys, do you know howto detect real networks idle in libuv/nodejs, i'm not mean the detect run_idle function :(
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08:15:15  <txdv>what do you mean by real networks idle?
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10:11:45  <indutny>saghul: but first I'll play Diablo a bit
10:19:00  <saghul>indutny: heh, sounds good!
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11:12:20  <roxlu>someone around who knows a cross platform embeddable http server? (no mingw preferably)
11:24:39  <txdv>for libuv?
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11:47:35  <indutny>saghul: yt?
11:47:36  <indutny>let's discuss readdir_next
11:47:38  <indutny>saghul: I wonder if it should be async
11:48:48  <indutny>UV_EXTERN int uv_fs_readdir_next(void* baton, uv_fs_readdir_next_cb cb);
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11:48:54  <indutny>typedef void (*uv_fs_readdir_next_cb)(uv_dirent_t* ent,
11:48:54  <indutny> int status,
11:48:54  <indutny> void* baton);
11:49:02  <indutny>where baton is a req->ptr from uv_fs_readdir
11:49:10  <indutny>saghul: what do you think?
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11:52:44  <txdv>https://github.com/joyent/libuv/issues/931 streaming readdir?
11:53:32  <txdv>indutny: are you going to tackle readdir?
11:54:02  <indutny>yes
11:54:22  <txdv>currently it returns a long string containing the filenames
11:54:35  <txdv>for types youd have to add a struct i guess
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11:56:31  <txdv>do you want a _next call for every file or for a bunch of files?
11:58:09  <txdv>currently the linux implementation uses scanddir which just returns the entire bunch
11:58:35  <txdv>the windows does use FindNextW, but I guess it creates internally already a big structure with FindFirst
11:58:50  <txdv>i wonder if FindNext is blocking or not
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12:00:16  <indutny>I know
12:00:20  <indutny>for every file
12:01:28  <saghul>pong
12:01:34  * saghulis reading the backlog
12:02:18  <txdv>indutny: it seems to me that FindNextFile is not blocking
12:02:28  <txdv>because in the documentation it states that the information of the files might be old
12:02:51  <saghul>indutny: I think this should be enough: typedef void (*uv_fs_readdir_next_cb)(uv_fs_t* req, uv_dirent_t* ent)
12:03:09  <indutny>hm...
12:03:15  <saghul>ent can be allocated on stack, we just put the d_name and d_type from the next one
12:03:16  <indutny>what about status?
12:03:22  <saghul>when we are done we pass a NULL ent
12:03:24  <indutny>saghul: it'll be allocated on stack
12:03:43  <saghul>status is passed to the readdir_cb, not the readdir_next_cb
12:03:59  <saghul>my idea is that the user calls the next function inside the readdir_cb
12:04:10  <saghul>so, once we know it actually worked
12:04:23  <saghul>it the request failed, we can call the callback with NULL
12:04:42  <saghul>same as if the directory was empty
12:04:55  <saghul>but the user needs to check status in the readdir callback
12:05:07  <saghul>or we could even assert
12:05:44  <saghul>since it's a programing error
12:05:49  <saghul>indutny: ^
12:07:35  <indutny>waaaait
12:07:43  <indutny>readdir cb is executed once uv_fs_t* req is filled
12:07:50  <indutny>then uv_readdir_next should be called on req
12:07:55  <indutny>and if readdir_next fails?
12:07:58  <indutny>just NULL as a ent?
12:08:01  <indutny>I don't really like it
12:08:04  <indutny>better pass a status
12:08:06  <saghul>how can _next fail?
12:08:21  <saghul>are we doing anything that can fail?
12:08:42  <saghul>we already got the structs, it's just copying some pointers
12:08:53  <saghul>can the windows side fail?
12:10:09  <indutny>let me check it
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12:10:27  <indutny>hm...
12:10:28  <indutny>I guess no
12:10:29  <indutny>ok
12:10:31  <indutny>looks fine then
12:12:31  <saghul>indutny: kewl
12:16:34  <indutny>so what I'm afraid of here :)
12:16:40  <indutny>ah, I have an idea
12:16:41  <indutny>nvm
12:16:56  <indutny>I'll use uv_idle_t
12:19:42  <saghul>indutny: what for?
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12:20:14  <indutny>saghul: for readdir_next
12:20:21  <indutny>I don't want to use worker threads for this
12:20:27  <indutny>basically we don't do any blocking stuff in it
12:20:31  <indutny>hm...
12:20:44  <indutny>may be it should just accept uv_dirent_t* ent as an argument
12:20:48  <indutny>without cbs
12:21:04  <indutny>UV_EXTERN int uv_fs_readdir_next(uv_fs_t* req, uv_dirent_t* ent);
12:21:17  <indutny>but the question is
12:21:22  <indutny>what will this give us :)
12:21:25  <indutny>lower memory usage?
12:21:44  <indutny>technically there is no way to really *stream* this data
12:22:42  <saghul>scandir already gave you the whole list of dirents
12:22:55  <saghul>all we want is to process them one by one
12:26:35  <saghul>the "streaming" would be done in node, by calling uv_fs_readdir_next on setImmediate or something
12:27:42  <indutny>yeah
12:27:42  <indutny>ok
12:27:50  <indutny>so I'll do a sync C API then
12:30:14  <saghul>I mean, at our level the thing is sync, there is no way around that, but giving you the ability to ask for one item at a time, uper layers can emulate a async model
12:30:23  <indutny>yep
12:30:28  <indutny>kewl
12:30:29  <saghul>also, we don't need to allocate memory for all dirents now
12:30:33  <saghul>\o/
12:30:46  <indutny>haha
12:30:51  <indutny>yes
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12:32:29  <txdv>scanddir is sync
12:32:34  <txdv>FindFirstFile is sync
12:32:38  <txdv>is FindNextFile sync?
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12:44:29  <txdv>i love these discussions, its always /ignore txdv and we dont care about your input
12:45:08  <saghul>it is sync
12:45:41  <saghul>txdv: did I miss anything you said? (sorry, multitasking)
12:45:54  <saghul>or rather: do you see a problem with what I mentioned?
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12:48:04  <txdv>im currently looking up it in the win src code if it is really sync
12:48:20  <saghul>oh
12:50:58  <saghul>txdv: by "sync" do you really mean if it blocks?
12:51:07  <saghul>(that would be bad)
12:52:54  <txdv>by async i mean it does only cpu and memory interaction
12:53:03  <txdv>by sync i mean it does more IO
12:54:42  <saghul>txdv: right, well, if it's sync it's bad because this function is supposed to be called on the event loop thread
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12:55:13  <saghul>so we'd need to change the design
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12:56:53  <txdv>looks sync to me
12:57:23  <txdv>Queue the packet, call the driver, and synchronize appopriately with I/O completion.
12:58:56  <saghul>so, if my samba share goes away while I'm iterating the list of files i'm fucked
13:00:08  <txdv>in windows 2000 it does it like that
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13:01:05  <saghul>hum
13:02:13  <saghul>we need to think about a different approach then
13:03:57  <txdv>funny though
13:04:13  <txdv>they have an async request and then do a sync call which awaits it
13:04:24  <txdv>would be possible to implement if we could use the windows internals
13:05:46  <saghul>txdv: but is the data actually stores somewhere?
13:06:00  <saghul>on Unix scandir already got it, so our function just copies some pointers
13:06:15  <saghul>if the data is not there on Windows, we need to run that on the threadpool
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13:06:34  <txdv>no
13:06:45  <txdv>I hoped it would load all data immediately after FindFirstFile
13:07:02  <txdv>but they are doing a 'NtQueryDirectoryFile' for every findnextfile
13:07:33  <txdv>but it is better to test it then trust win2k leaked code
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13:08:27  <saghul>heh fair enough!
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13:12:57  <saghul>indutny: ^
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13:19:49  <txdv>if we want true async with NT, we'll have to use internal functions and reimplement it on our own
13:20:00  <txdv>i might play around with it a little bit because im curious if it is possible
13:20:12  <txdv>but i dont think libuv would accept code like this
13:20:27  <indutny>hey hey
13:20:39  <indutny>saghul: tldr?
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13:22:28  <txdv>FindNextFile blocks
13:23:06  <txdv>cant call it in the same loop thread
13:23:40  <indutny>aaah
13:23:44  <indutny>oh
13:23:49  <indutny>this is quite shitty
13:23:50  <txdv>i looked it up in win2k code
13:23:58  <indutny>saghul: I wonder if we could just add new params
13:24:03  <indutny>without this iterator changes
13:24:21  <indutny>going back and forth from/to worker threads will become very expensive
13:24:23  <indutny>if we'll do it
13:24:47  <txdv>imo just call FindNextFile in a seperate thread and build a dirent** object like scandir does
13:24:51  <txdv>and then return that
13:25:03  <indutny>this is what we already do
13:25:13  <txdv>not really
13:25:20  <indutny>so you want it to send messages to main thread
13:25:22  <indutny>while reading
13:25:24  <indutny>right?
13:25:50  <txdv>you want to stream every single entry?
13:25:58  <indutny>erhm
13:26:01  <indutny>either this
13:26:05  <indutny>or give everything at once
13:26:20  <txdv>currently it returns a big string with the filenames only
13:26:33  <txdv>what we want as a first step is to return a struct with types also included
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13:26:52  <indutny>yes, that's what I am talking about
13:26:58  <indutny>but saghul was talking about iterator interface
13:27:50  <txdv>i mean, scanddir blocks anyway until everything is read out
13:28:00  <indutny>yes
13:28:02  <indutny>indeed
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13:35:39  <saghul>txdv: i like that approach
13:35:47  <saghul>(build the list of dirents on windows)
13:36:40  <indutny>saghul: I think we should do it without iterators for now
13:36:43  <indutny>also
13:36:52  <indutny>yeah
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13:38:07  <saghul>indutny: why? if we are going to spend time on it we might as well do it nicely
13:38:16  <saghul>the iterator thing is simple
13:38:22  <indutny>wait
13:38:31  <indutny>I don't see how it could be useful
13:38:38  <indutny>what are we going to accomplish with this?
13:38:51  <saghul>the complication was windows, but if we build the dirents list upfront (ala unix) then the iterator just gives you the next one without blocking
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13:40:04  <indutny>saghul: let's do it in two steps :)
13:40:41  <saghul>indutny: you don't need to build a huge array of entries
13:41:07  <saghul>in Node, for example
13:41:11  <indutny>yeah, this is the only pros
13:41:16  <indutny>lower memory usage
13:41:30  <indutny>but on windows it'll be the same anyway
13:41:31  <saghul>sounds like a good enough reason to me :-)
13:41:38  <indutny>yep
13:41:44  <indutny>still we could do it in 2 stesps
13:41:45  <indutny>steps
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13:42:06  <saghul>what is step one then?
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13:42:56  <indutny>expose types
13:43:06  <indutny>and alloc dirents on windows
13:43:20  <indutny>then we could reshuffle code
13:43:21  <saghul>the you need to malloc space for the array of uv_dirent_t + each and every path
13:43:46  <indutny>yes
13:43:49  <indutny>I already did it :)
13:43:57  <indutny>writing windows side of it
13:44:19  <saghul>then when do you want to do phase 2?
13:44:35  <saghul>hint: "later" is not a valid answer ;-)
13:45:30  <indutny>haha
13:45:33  <txdv>soon
13:45:41  <txdv>soon Valve Time(TM)
13:46:00  <indutny>ooook
13:46:01  <indutny>you got me
13:46:03  <indutny>I'll implement it
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13:48:32  <saghul>kewl! :-)
13:49:39  <saghul>thanks guys!
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13:59:02  <yorkieneil___>network idle what i expect is all connections(UDP/TCP) are inactivity
14:00:37  <saghul>yorkieneil___: there is no mechanism for that in libuv
14:00:50  <yorkieneil___>something like a app server, i wanna get a trigger after app created connection pool to mongodb/redis/mysql and other tcp/udp initialization
14:01:16  <yorkieneil___>@saghui, thanks, got it :)
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14:02:27  <yorkieneil___>have a question, are you plain to support a trigger to do that, i really think it maybe useful
14:03:33  <txdv>so basically a timer which gets reset everytime there is a send or recv happening
14:03:45  <txdv>and you think this is should be core libuv?
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14:05:49  <saghul>I don't think it belongs to core. Applications can keep track of sent and received data easily and implement whatever policy on top of it
14:06:05  <yorkieneil___>I just think libuv should(maybe) expose a api that can get send/recv :(
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14:06:51  <yorkieneil___>that's too hard implemetation for big app
14:07:30  <yorkieneil___>i'm unsure that, maybe you're right
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14:13:38  <txdv>yorkieneil___: it really shouldn't
14:13:45  <txdv>you can do it yourself in the app
14:13:59  <txdv>its not something os dependent
14:15:07  <yorkieneil___>because the app is too big, and use too many netowrking modules, if i do that, it has a very big refactor, but anyway, thanks a lot :)
14:16:00  <txdv>there is nothing stopping you from using a own patched libuv
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14:17:17  <yorkieneil___>it makes a different branch, i don't like that :(
14:18:09  <txdv>yeah you all like us to code for you
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14:19:57  <txdv>saghul: winrt has async support for everything
14:20:02  <txdv>:>
14:23:02  <saghul>txdv: winrt== the ting on the cheap tablets?
14:23:17  <saghul>*thing
14:26:20  <txdv>windows 8 has a new api
14:26:22  <txdv>its called winrt
14:26:36  <txdv>in order to create maximum confusion since the codename for windows 8 on tables was winrt as well
14:26:47  <txdv>either way, everything that blocks there has an asynchronous api by default
14:26:53  <txdv>readdir for example
14:28:24  <txdv>code looks like this __x_Windows_CUI_CXaml_CControls_CITextBlock_put_Text(tb, hs)
14:28:28  <txdv>since it has namespaces
14:28:38  <txdv>so they prefix every call with the entire name
14:34:20  <saghul>O_O
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16:27:33  <MI6>joyent/node: Alexis Campailla merge-review * dbd2b4f : test: fix dns test (+4 more commits) - http://git.io/6UrcoQ
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18:45:15  <MI6>joyent/node: Alexis Campailla v0.12 * 0d357fa : test: fix dns test (+4 more commits) - http://git.io/pmMQfQ
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20:52:21  <indutny>saghul|afk: you still around?
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21:08:22  <saghul|afk>indutny: pong
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21:15:13  <MI6>joyent/node: Fedor Indutny merge-review * 6b97c2e : openssl: fix keypress requirement in apps on win32 (+1 more commits) - http://git.io/nqcGHg
21:24:17  <indutny>saghul|afk: haha
21:24:26  <indutny>I'll try using vbox this time :)
21:25:33  <nathan7>I hope you're not using vbox to run SmartOS
21:25:38  <indutny>I think I have almost finished implementing that thing
21:25:44  <nathan7>because vbox is awfully broken with SmartOS
21:25:52  <nathan7>(we had shit randomly segfault and everything)
21:26:40  <tjfontaine>I think vbox itslef is pretty broken
21:27:41  <indutny>hahaha
21:27:48  <indutny>I don't really want to run SmartOS :)
21:27:59  <indutny>freebsd gives me almost everything that I need
21:28:17  <indutny>and I have one server just for the builds
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21:41:00  <tjfontaine>FATAL: hudson.remoting.RequestAbortedException: java.io.IOException: Failed to abort
21:41:03  <tjfontaine>wtf does that even mean jenkins
21:41:04  <tjfontaine>wtf
21:44:43  <saghul|afk>nathan7: I managed to compile and run the libuv test suite on SmartOS on VirtualBox
21:45:08  <saghul|afk>and then I realized I had no idea what SmartOS was all about :-P
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22:09:16  <indutny>saghul|afk: still around?
22:09:39  <indutny>saghul|afk: could you please try this on windows https://github.com/indutny/libuv/tree/feature/dirent ?
22:09:46  <indutny>I won't have time to do it today :(
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22:13:22  * indutny&
22:13:22  <LOUDBOT>OMG WHAT IS IT WITH THESE LESBIANS!
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22:53:30  <nathan7>tjfontaine: yeah, I have giant trust in SmartOS
22:53:44  <nathan7>tjfontaine: pretty sure it's vbox fucking up paging or something
22:54:28  <tjfontaine>if you have a device for crash dumps the folks in #smartos may be interested in it
23:00:56  <nathan7>tjfontaine: it's just mad broken and uninteresting
23:01:20  <nathan7>tjfontaine: vbox's memory management is messed up, nothing wrong with SmartOS methinks
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23:08:01  <tjfontaine>nod
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