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00:12:01  <acrichto>saghul_: ping
00:13:47  <saghul_>acrichto: pong
00:14:11  <acrichto>saghul_: ah nevermind, you were quicker than I!
00:14:15  <acrichto>re https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1337
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00:14:42  <acrichto>thanks for helping out on that!
00:15:52  <saghul_>acrichto: you're welcome!
00:16:26  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Alex Crichton master * c7e4b31 : windows: read the PATH env var of the child - http://git.io/jrLL6g
00:19:07  <saghul_>3 more PRs and we are game!
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07:21:19  <saghul_>txdv: hi there
07:21:36  <saghul_>txdv: will you have some time to finish those open PRs?
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10:55:12  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Iñaki Baz Castillo master * a1ff22c : include: avoid using C++ 'template' reserved word - http://git.io/J7IsTg
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13:56:59  <roxlu>indutny: I'm still coding away with this SSL thing and wondering if you maybe know how to disable the 'SSLv3 read client certificate' process? (in the server side)
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14:26:39  <indutny>roxlu: read client certificate?
14:26:44  <indutny>roxlu: you mean request client cert?
14:26:54  <indutny>roxlu: I think it could be disabled with SSL_set_verify
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21:47:10  <MI6>joyent/node: Kevin Simper merge-review * 70cc996 : doc: clarify factory methods for net.Socket (+1 more commits) - http://git.io/mvbRhA
21:47:41  <trevnorris>saghul / indutny: I'm setting up a Windows VM to do testing. Is 8.1 officially supported?
21:48:13  <tjfontaine>hmm? did you want space on the azure account and the msdn stuff?
21:48:38  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: nodesource is covering the cost. and this'll allow me to dick around a lot more. :)
21:48:52  <tjfontaine>mmk, msft covers the cost as is
21:49:10  <tjfontaine>they msopentech donated msdn and azure space
21:49:52  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: i'm not familiar w/ the Win OS offerings. Do they have a specific version for servers?
21:50:44  <tjfontaine>well there's leading edge versions that happen on the desktop, but they happen more on interface than on undelrying semantics
21:50:53  <tjfontaine>so there's 2k8[r2] and 2k12
21:51:58  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: so any build/testing I were to do on like win 8.1 would likewise work on whatever azure is running?
21:52:51  <saghul>trevnorris: yes, it should be
21:53:13  <trevnorris>saghul: thanks.
21:53:27  <saghul>though I use Windows 7 for all my Win dev, I couldn't get 8 on my iMac for some reason
21:53:41  <saghul>trevnorris: are you planning to test something specific?
21:53:50  <trevnorris>saghul: also, just wanted to ask. what's your background? swear i saw a little while ago that JS is a more recent thing for you.
21:54:12  <tjfontaine>pyuv man ;)
21:54:30  <trevnorris>saghul: eh, I want to get more involved in libuv. so figured I better get used to build/testing on windows.
21:54:37  <saghul>I'm a Python guy :-)
21:54:41  <trevnorris>how the hell do you debug stuff on windows?
21:54:44  <trevnorris>ah, ok. :)
21:55:09  <saghul>you can load the sln thing on Visual Studio
21:55:21  <saghul>or use MSYS2 / MinGW and use gdb
21:55:32  <saghul>oh, and don't forget printf :-P
21:55:38  <trevnorris>heh.
21:55:43  <tjfontaine>vs.net debugger is the top though
21:55:51  <tjfontaine>for interactive source level debugging
21:55:59  <trevnorris>ok. well, guess I need to learn to use an IDE again.
21:56:05  <trevnorris>been ages.
21:56:16  <nathan7>one day I'll be rich enough to buy the Visual Studio team and have them port it to Unices
21:56:23  <trevnorris>hahaha.
21:56:43  <trevnorris>any chance in hell llvm would ever work on windows?
21:56:48  <tjfontaine>it does
21:56:54  <tjfontaine>your question is more about lldb though
21:57:02  <trevnorris>heh, you read my mind. :)
21:57:03  <saghul>I never tried myself
21:57:22  <tjfontaine>there are still some caveats to it, but there are people working to make it first class
21:58:11  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: does the free visual studio give me the tools I need to do the debugging required?
21:58:34  <tjfontaine>I think it depends on versions, and how much you want to debug, it probably will get you started
21:58:56  <trevnorris>cool. since I have zero experience that sounds like a good starting point.
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21:59:11  <saghul>does the Pro Ultimate Enterprise version not have the menus ALL IN STUPID CAPS?
21:59:18  <tjfontaine>haha
21:59:21  <trevnorris>heh
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22:03:29  <trevnorris>wtf's the difference between 8.1 and 8.1 pro?
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22:03:46  <trevnorris>wait. let me google that. :P
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22:24:11  <jgi>trevnorris: if you’re new to Windows debugging with Visual Studio, I highly recommend watching this series of tutorials: https://www.wintellectnow.com/course/detail/mastering-windows-debugging
22:24:30  <jgi>trevnorris: it’s made by John Robbins, one of the references on the subject
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22:25:29  <jgi>trevnorris: he wrote a book called “Debugging Windows Applications” that is the best book on the subject, but a bit old (covers Visual Studio 6). This series is of the same quality, but updated for Visual Studio 2013
22:25:55  <trevnorris>jgi: cool. thanks.
22:26:15  <trevnorris>i hate the idea of learning to work w/ windows tools. but eh, if that's what's required to work on the project.
22:26:28  <jgi>trevnorris: Visual Studio’s debugger is one of the best I know
22:27:04  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: for arbitrary memory locations that you're tracking, if it can identify that it's a PNG/JPEG it will actually render the PNG :)
22:27:06  <jgi>trevnorris: but maybe also because it’s the one I know the most
22:27:58  <trevnorris>well, you're talking to someone that does everything in tmux, vim and gdb/lldb/etc.
22:28:07  <trevnorris>the idea of using a full IDE makes me shiver
22:28:13  <tjfontaine>me too man -- but you need to see it in action
22:28:24  <trevnorris>heh, i'll take your word on that.
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22:31:26  <mmalecki>hello. is there any bug blocking v0.12 which I could take a stab at?
22:31:41  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: we're going to be doing a blocker list tonight and then doing a sprint tomorrow
22:31:45  <tjfontaine>and the weekend of course
22:31:51  <tjfontaine>but during that sprint if you want to help out by all means
22:32:01  <mmalecki>cool! gonna be there then
22:32:04  <tjfontaine>we definitely need help verifing fixes etc :)
22:32:04  <mmalecki>er, here
22:32:21  <mmalecki>so what's the time frame for the sprint? like, when do you start?
22:32:23  <tjfontaine>and trackign down bugs
22:32:29  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: probably after 9AM PDT
22:34:22  <mmalecki>that's SF time, right?
22:34:32  <tjfontaine>ya
22:34:41  <tjfontaine>though technically I'm in vacouver currently
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22:36:18  <mmalecki>saghul: ^^ you wanna do a sprint pizza party?
22:36:42  <tjfontaine>Ithink libuv is at the brink of branch right?
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22:41:56  <mmalecki>are error message changes okay in stable?
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22:43:26  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: depends
22:46:47  <mmalecki>tjfontaine: https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/8089 - I made a PR for master already
22:48:53  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: if we work up a policy how owuld you feel about going through all of [master for now] and applying that policy to errors? :)
22:50:15  <mmalecki>tjfontaine: I could do that, seems like a chance to document some errors we return
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22:51:20  <mmalecki>tjfontaine: I don't think there'll big differences
22:51:28  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: that would also be useful, up to you for how much or how far you want to go
22:51:42  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: mostly we just want to figure out what the policy is to be consistent, and then apply it to ourselves
22:52:21  <mmalecki>tjfontaine: right. so what are our choices wrt policy?
22:52:40  <mmalecki>like, it's either yes, no, or set of conditions
22:53:26  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: well, there's the policy of how the error message itself should read, and then there's the policy of which pertinent information should we store on the errors, and then making sure we reuse the same common properties
22:53:28  <mmalecki>should I create a github issue for discussion btw?
22:53:47  <mmalecki>right, so just an error standard!
22:53:59  <mmalecki>yup, that would be good
22:54:00  <tjfontaine>sure, you can use as a straw man some of the things that we had during the error summit -- http://joyent.com/developers/node/design/errors
22:54:25  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: see at least the appendix portion
22:55:05  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: and the portion "Specific recommendations for writing new functions"
22:55:31  <mmalecki>tjfontaine: so are we gonna add .name to all our errors?
22:56:09  * wolfeidaujoined
22:56:29  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: I think it's something we should consider, and maybe it's not the property `.name` but something we can programmatically and reliably take action upon
22:56:48  <mmalecki>hmm, .code?
22:56:59  <mmalecki>this is what I usually use
22:57:00  <tjfontaine>we use code already in other places, maybe that's the right one to use, maybe not
22:57:15  <tjfontaine>in your issue I'd like to mark it potentially as a blocker
22:57:21  <mmalecki>right, does node introduce its own .code's?
22:57:29  <chrisdickinson>re: errors, i'm working on some docs as well
22:57:38  <tjfontaine>kinda, we sometimes stash errno's on code
22:57:56  <chrisdickinson>(tangentially related, there are a bunch of places we should be using RangeErrors instead of plain Error's)
22:58:11  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: fwiw that document was meant to be a conversation starter, so feel free to crib and extend where necessary
22:58:20  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: there's also type and argument errors right?
22:58:21  <chrisdickinson>(and it might be helpful if errnoException generated an Error of a new class for documentation purposes)
22:58:29  <mmalecki>okay, so I'm gonna make an issue mentioning the master/v0.12 diffing and needing to make a policy
22:58:36  <chrisdickinson>no argument errors -- typeerror takes care of argument errors
22:58:42  <chrisdickinson>well!
22:58:50  <chrisdickinson>kind of. when the argument's the wrong type, it's a typeerror
22:58:54  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: there are concerns about extending Error for people who browserify
22:58:59  <chrisdickinson>when it's not one of the valid options for the argument, it's a rangeerror (loosely)
22:59:10  <tjfontaine>as not all browsers (apparently) treat that in the same way
22:59:16  <chrisdickinson>they sure don't :P
22:59:30  <chrisdickinson>(though, that's getting better lately.)
22:59:54  <tjfontaine>also v8 can be evil from version to version with how it creates error, so inheritence may not be the right way to encode information, and instead attaching properties to the existing base types may be the right solution
23:01:14  <chrisdickinson>ah, I was thinking: `function SystemError(errno, message) { Error.call(this, util.format(<standard format); this.errno = errno; Error.captureStackTrace(this) }; util.inherits(SystemError, Error)`
23:02:00  <tjfontaine>that may be sufficient, it's just that how V8 creates errors from time to time the order can change, and you can end up being in efficient
23:02:01  <chrisdickinson>(though that would of course have to happen in a later version)
23:02:10  <tjfontaine>for instance, I think that implementation calls captureStackTrace twice
23:03:17  <tjfontaine>v8 encodes special markres for itself, that are true iff you are doing `new Error` but doesn't match for something doing `Error.call(this)`
23:04:38  * chrisdickinsonnods
23:04:38  * Ralithquit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
23:04:59  <tjfontaine>because they're too good for the `if(!(this instanceof Error))` style checking ...
23:05:15  * octetcloudjoined
23:06:08  <jgi>trevnorris: also, if you’d like to use something similar to dtrace on windows (but with a very nice front-end), these two videos are really great: https://www.wintellectnow.com/videos/watch/introduction-to-profiling-with-event-tracing-for-windows and https://www.wintellectnow.com/Videos/Watch/etw-custom-events-and-idle-thread-analysis
23:06:25  <tjfontaine>[which we have spport for in node!]
23:06:26  <jgi>trevnorris: now I’ll stop annoying with windows for a while
23:06:42  <trevnorris>jgi: heh, no worries. thanks for the help. :)
23:07:28  * a_lejoined
23:08:07  <chrisdickinson>tjfontaine: yeah, they do the IsConstructCall, and otherwise instantiate & return a new error because reasons :\
23:08:21  <tjfontaine>chrisdickinson: assholes. :)
23:08:23  <chrisdickinson>haha
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23:12:08  <octetcloud>folks, I love the mkdtemp feature, can't wait for it to hit node, but...
23:12:19  <octetcloud>http://repo.or.cz/w/glibc.git/blob/d4795e4a43e6f0c221bc5dc64c612206a21a177b:/sysdeps/posix/tempname.c#l203
23:12:30  <octetcloud>It contains code that is LGPL licensed, copyright the FSF, IANAL, but that looks like a license problem
23:12:39  <octetcloud>https://github.com/joyent/libuv/blob/master/src/win/fs.c#L734
23:12:58  <octetcloud>sufficient rewriting might fix, as might taking code from a license compatible library, maybe a BSD libc, maybe even sunos?
23:13:29  <tjfontaine>mk*temp would be fucking fantastic to have
23:14:30  <tjfontaine>looks like illumos has it in the libc
23:15:50  <tjfontaine>https://github.com/joyent/illumos-joyent/blob/master/usr/src/lib/libc/port/gen/mkdtemp.c and https://github.com/joyent/illumos-joyent/blob/master/usr/src/lib/libc/port/gen/mkstemp.c
23:17:22  * cjihrigquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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23:17:53  <tjfontaine>octetcloud: looks like netbsd 7 weeks ago added the freebsd versions of mk*temp
23:19:03  <tjfontaine>which looks mostly like wrappers around http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/lib/libc/stdio/gettemp.c?rev=1.19&content-type=text/plain
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23:24:05  <mmalecki>tjfontaine: wait, the sprint is on 7th or 8th?
23:24:16  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: 7th, and then maybe the 9th
23:24:21  <tjfontaine>mmalecki: 8th is a meeting day
23:24:59  <saghul>mmalecki: oh, when / where?
23:25:22  <tjfontaine>octetcloud: sam, why can't you just use the system mkdtemp? or you want to implement in pure js?
23:25:29  <mmalecki>saghul: 7th? I think you know enough JS to deal with some node issues at this point :D
23:25:40  <tjfontaine>hey they could be libuv issues ;)
23:25:57  <mmalecki>or that ^
23:26:07  <saghul>i'm game!
23:26:24  <saghul>also, docs!
23:26:27  * octetcloudquit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:26:30  <mmalecki>saghul: so my place, 18:00?
23:26:38  <mmalecki>saghul: I have good pizza places too!
23:27:23  <saghul>mmalecki: sweet, will ping you tomorrow then, I'm super tired today
23:27:32  <saghul>g'night everyone!
23:27:37  <tjfontaine>saghul: night
23:27:38  <mmalecki>saghul: a'ight! good night!
23:27:54  <jgi>saghul: night!
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