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00:00:17  <othiym23>trevnorris: depends on the implementation
00:00:24  <othiym23>on some OSes, it's just ticks since boot
00:06:18  <indutny>tjfontaine: hey man
00:06:25  <tjfontaine>hey
00:06:29  <indutny>tjfontaine: trevnorris : mind landing my SyntaxError thing today?
00:06:40  <indutny>https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7049
00:06:44  <tjfontaine>ya I wanna actually look at the output myself
00:06:47  <indutny>ok
00:06:49  <indutny>great
00:06:55  <tjfontaine>I'll land it if I'm cool with it :)
00:07:00  <tjfontaine>otherwise I'll comment
00:09:25  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: can nodeInitialization just delete itself?
00:09:43  <tjfontaine>that is `delete exports._nodeInitialization;`
00:10:47  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: duh. yeah. I do that with pretty much every other call of that type. thanks for pointing that out.
00:11:41  <trevnorris>indutny: wow, that change came out way bigger than I thought it would.
00:11:51  <trevnorris>funny how the seemingly small things can get that way. :)
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00:25:01  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: think I should pile the API changes onto this PR, or land it first and make a new PR w/ the API changes?
00:25:16  <tjfontaine>lets land this first
00:25:28  <tjfontaine>the api should be pretty straight forward, I just want to see it separate
00:25:38  <trevnorris>derp. need to move the documentation. :P
00:31:38  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ok, docs have been moved.
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00:53:24  <trevnorris>heh, this is a useful message: http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/node-pullrequest/1944/DESTCPU=ia32,label=linux/tapTestReport/test.tap-648/
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00:57:39  <trevnorris>anyone else want to give this a look? https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7055
00:59:59  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: i'm just going over the current documentation to make sure that it all makes sense, but i'm happy w/ this.
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01:03:57  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: ya it's pretty straight forward
01:04:13  <trevnorris>coolio. just a couple doc cleanups to do and i'll land it
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01:05:10  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: are you doing the doc cleanups in a separate commit?
01:06:13  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: it's just minor minor wordings. like "three" to "several". and putting () at the end of a few callback names.
01:06:19  <tjfontaine>ok
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01:14:49  <trevnorris>alright, merging.
01:15:17  <trevnorris>just found a discrepancy between the docs and what it actually does, but the docs are correct.
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01:15:25  <trevnorris>so i'll fix that in my next pr
01:17:13  <MI6>joyent/node: Trevor Norris master * 6cbfcda : src: move AsyncListener from process to tracing - http://git.io/2k4BHA
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02:19:09  <tjfontaine>so I will file this bug, but I am severely depressed by this "bug" I just found
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02:30:51  <andrewrk>tjfontaine, why is that?
02:31:04  <mmalecki>tjfontaine: ...it's 5 PM somewhere?
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05:22:04  <Ralith>Is there any way to cancel a udp_send?
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05:28:34  <Ralith>also: is the amount of time required for a udp_send to complete bounded?
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06:39:51  <Domenic_>trevnorris: do you have a link to any discussions around standardizing what you'll see in node errors? We're thinking about that exact question in the DOM and ES, and it would be cool to learn from Node's lessons about what works and what doesn't.
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06:51:00  <othiym23>Domenic_: I already linked trevnorris to the discussion on es-discuss when he was asking what I thought about adding new Error types for Node ;)
06:51:27  <Domenic_>othiym23: ya now I want to know his thoughts, given he seems unlikely to post to es-discuss :)
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06:54:13  <othiym23>Domenic_: fair enough
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06:55:01  <othiym23>Domenic_: fwiw, in the absence of type guards in catch, I don't really see the value of error subtypes at all
06:55:18  <othiym23>and that seems to be a dead path
06:55:50  <othiym23>I use Errors myself, and just stick the class and any necessary context on the side of the Error object as expando properties
06:56:14  <othiym23>class as in class of error, not class in the JS pseudo-class sense
06:57:03  <Domenic_>i agree
06:57:07  <Domenic_>i am hopeful we can get type guards
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06:57:35  <Domenic_>but i think putting a unique "cause" is great for logs and the few scenarios where you're willing to overcome the language friction in order to actually do the checking
06:57:46  <Domenic_>i.e. i think a unique cause is more useful in those scenarios than a type is
07:00:17  <othiym23>I agree
07:01:14  <othiym23>on my most recent foray into this, I also attached other errors related to the current failure on the side of the Error for logging
07:01:51  <othiym23>and CLS puts the CLS context active at the time of throw onto the side of the error, which is something that New Relic to correlate its transactions to specific errors for error tracing purposes
07:02:18  <othiym23>I think trevnorris was toying with the idea of doing something similar for asyncListeners, but he and I didn't get into that in any depth
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08:07:47  * piscisaureus_topic: Liberal utopian void ~ http://logs.libuv.org/libuv ~ http://groups.google.com/group/libuv
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08:42:45  <trevnorris>Domenic_: one issue I find annoying is that the context of the function (i.e. "this") that errored is lost by the time I'm able to handle the error.
08:43:13  <trevnorris>Domenic_: I can get around that in my AL implementation, and the easiest way to pass that along is just attach it to the Error itself.
08:44:30  <trevnorris>unfortunately constantly updating the running context has overhead. so it's only really useful if it's absolutely necessary.
08:46:29  <trevnorris>Domenic_: there are other things very Node specific. Like the originating "provider" (e.g. TCP, Pipe, FS), error "code" (e.g. ECONNECT)
08:47:42  <trevnorris>Domenic_: also, throwing in JS should be seen as a last resort. at least as far as v8's concerned. it automatically deopts the calling function. and after so many deopts v8 will refuse to try optimizing that function again.
08:48:54  <trevnorris>Domenic_: so i'd like to see a better line drawn between fatal wtf we're about to die errors that are meant to give you some info about the program in its final moments before death
08:49:51  <trevnorris>Domenic_: and errors that are more like, "oh hey, you should know about this. we'll clean it up for you if you're too lazy or you can give us specific instructions"
08:51:47  <trevnorris>Domenic_: IMO the former is when "throw" is used. (wtf do iterators throw? that just kills performance) while the latter is when an Error is created and returned or passed to a callback or whatnot.
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09:09:06  <indutny>heya
09:09:09  <indutny>good mornning
09:13:17  <MI6>joyent/node: iamdoron v0.10 * 1317032 : fs: make unwatchFile() insensitive to path - http://git.io/Kkda-g
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09:16:04  <trevnorris>Domenic_: anyways, that last part was a bit off topic. the biggest thing is to give users enough information so they can recover resources, if possible, and w/o affecting the entire process.
09:16:15  <trevnorris>indutny: morning to you
09:16:35  <indutny>trevnorris: going to fix the nits that you have pointed out and land that PR
09:17:11  <trevnorris>indutny: which one?
09:17:19  <indutny>SyntaxError thing
09:17:27  <trevnorris>ah, ok
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09:27:33  <MI6>joyent/node: Fedor Indutny master * f1de13b : node: do not print SyntaxError hints to stderr - http://git.io/ZYrIvA
09:28:40  <indutny>ok
09:29:00  <indutny>keeping up my github streak
09:29:01  <indutny>:)
09:34:32  <trevnorris>heh
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10:20:00  <MI6>joyent/node: Nathan Rajlich master * 8874a31 : util: show meaningful values for boxed primitives - http://git.io/T5CWXQ
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11:35:15  <MI6>joyent/node: Ben Noordhuis master * bbd56d8 : vm: don't copy Proxy object from parent context (+1 more commits) - http://git.io/VA4aJQ
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12:07:41  <janjongboom>Did Ben start committing again?
12:08:47  <mmalecki>I saw few commits from him earlier
12:13:49  <janjongboom>cool
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13:49:35  <AlexisMocha>tjfontaine: it looks like the nodejs-master-windows build is stuck again http://jenkins.nodejs.org/view/node/job/nodejs-master-windows/
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14:30:43  <Domenic_>trevnorris: ok cool, thanks. FYI iterators have not thrown for the last year or so.
14:31:13  <Domenic_>indutny: wow nice job on the SyntaxError thing, that's been a wart in Node for approximately forever....
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14:44:56  <indutny>Domenic_: thanks
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15:22:08  <tjfontaine>AlexisMocha: ok
15:22:50  <AlexisMocha>good morning
15:22:57  <tjfontaine>othiym23, Domenic_, trevnorris: properties on errors is the most feasible way forward for node, subtyped could be something in the future
15:23:29  <tjfontaine>ah it's stuck because 2k8r2 is offline again
15:23:31  <tjfontaine>quaint
15:24:08  <tjfontaine>dear java, please stop core dumping on windows
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15:41:18  <tjfontaine>so on the topic of errors and node
15:41:43  <tjfontaine>say you're an http server, and you're handing a request, and the client goes away, and you read()/write() resulting in an errnoException
15:41:50  <tjfontaine>do *you* know where that error goes?
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15:51:45  <indutny>morning
15:52:02  <indutny>tjfontaine: to the socket
15:52:07  <indutny>and to the req from the socket
15:52:58  <tjfontaine>it goes to the socket, but from the socket where does it go?
15:53:02  <tjfontaine>you're saying the request?
16:00:53  <tjfontaine>I'll save you the suspense, they're delivered to `clientError` on the server
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17:01:37  <AlexisMocha>status call today?
17:02:00  <tjfontaine>call yes
17:02:07  <tjfontaine>getting the link
17:02:59  <tjfontaine>https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/dGpmb250YWluZUBub2RlanMub3Jn.7o3iugm5mbjqj81eb56fsoj118
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17:19:12  <tjfontaine>indutny: ...
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17:31:40  <indutny>tjfontaine: what's up?
17:31:44  <indutny>oh a call?
17:31:51  <indutny>still on the line?
17:31:57  <tjfontaine>yes
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17:59:52  <tjfontaine>AlexisMocha: hey, you have commit access to joyent/node for now though only push to feature branches such taht you can get your jenkins coverage testing
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18:04:34  <AlexisMocha>tjfontaine: fantastic! this will be very useful
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22:17:16  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: I need to look into it further, but I'm getting some hangs in test-asynclistener-run-error-once
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22:39:47  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: on a specific platform?
22:40:24  <tjfontaine>well, I'm on osx at the moment
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22:44:35  <trevnorris>ok. and is it sorta-random or pretty reproduce-able?
22:50:57  <trevnorris>indutny: ping
22:51:05  <trevnorris>actually, you should be in bed. :P
22:52:36  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: so, in C++ I can align all those values in the enum w/o an issue but jslint is not too happy about it. but dropping the extra whitespace really looks bad.
22:52:46  <trevnorris>if possible i'm just going to throw in one of those NOLINT or so comments
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23:23:30  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ping
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23:28:57  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: pong, it doesn't really need to be pretty, it's just a nice to have ;)
23:29:59  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: so, cares_wrap is bugging me. there's QueryWrap and GetAddrInfoWrap, but both basically just do dns stuff. issue is that i'm OCD and right now all names match their class name counterparts, but in this case it feels dumb
23:30:30  <tjfontaine>well they are different things
23:31:10  <trevnorris>yeah. though feel like in the js side the provider should just be "dns". i don't know.
23:31:28  <tjfontaine>maybe, unless what you're tracking is thread pool saturation
23:31:32  <trevnorris>true
23:31:42  <tjfontaine>then you want to be able to delinate just FS and DNS
23:31:43  <tjfontaine>er
23:31:46  <tjfontaine>GetAddr
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23:31:50  <trevnorris>yeah
23:31:58  <tjfontaine>however, libc isn't really descriptive enough
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23:37:46  <austo>trevnorris: this chat might not be the right place for this, but I was hoping you could offer some insight as to why the same series of libuv file system calls is roughly 40% faster from JS than when called from a C++ addon
23:38:21  <tjfontaine>austo: you mean, uv_fs_* is faster in Node than in C?
23:38:37  <austo>yes, exactly
23:38:53  <tjfontaine>you're providing callbacks in the C version?
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23:39:23  <AvianFlu>if it's a C++ addon being called from node, that might just be boundary cost
23:39:30  <AvianFlu>beware my armchair benchmarking, of course
23:39:38  <tjfontaine>basically we need to see code
23:39:49  <tjfontaine>but, you should attempt to do as little work with libuv in your addon as necessary
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23:40:45  <tjfontaine>that being said, if you do: uv_fs_open() but don't include a cb you are actually sync and not on the threadpool, which could manifest as any sort of number
23:41:06  <tjfontaine>also -- benchmarking fs operations is a particularly nasty past time
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23:42:15  <austo>tjfontaine: I understand, this was more to satisfy my curiosity than to write a general purpose module. The code is here https://github.com/austo/fsTests/blob/master/fileTest.cc
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23:45:42  <tjfontaine>you're not really comparing the same things, imo
23:45:54  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: think in the JS API I should include additional providers that are like DNS = GETADDRINFO | CARES
23:46:04  <trevnorris>?
23:46:19  <tjfontaine>that's certainly one way to tackle it
23:46:29  <tjfontaine>frankly there's no reason not to do it in C++
23:46:56  <tjfontaine>what we export on the js side should be constructed from the C++ side, as you recall
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23:48:29  <trevnorris>from the C++ side there's no need for it. those are just convenience values for the user
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23:48:50  <tjfontaine>there may be a need for it, it's also helpful to define these things in just one place
23:48:55  <trevnorris>like, right now if they wanted all TCP I/O they'd need to include TCP | TCPCONNECT (since they use different classes in C++)
23:50:27  <trevnorris>i'm honestly missing how you'd define all those values in the same location. you'd still have to have the string values in the enum, and then also when you attach them to the JS object to export
23:51:15  <mmalecki>every time I try to write Bert's IRC nick I wonder how he logs into things
23:56:27  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: this is something we do all the time, it's important that these things keep in sync without intervention from us, one example of how we do this currently is https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/src/node_constants.cc
23:56:33  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: on the side. it is a bit annoying that right now there's no easy way to break apart TCP/Pipe/TTY write's. since they all use the same WriteWrap class. hm. actually, the "provider" still should be TCP/Pipe/TTY right?
23:56:46  <trevnorris>so I'd have to pass that in on the construction of the WriteWrap
23:56:48  <tjfontaine>the provider is always right in that case
23:57:03  <tjfontaine>well
23:57:16  <tjfontaine>streamwrap's work fine with that inheritance model
23:57:27  <trevnorris>yeah. and I can still use that.
23:57:36  <trevnorris>it won't require splitting up the class or anything.
23:58:15  <trevnorris>i'm just thinking that the request should be more of who is making the call, and not what the call is.
23:58:34  <trevnorris>and PROVIDER_WRITEWRAP it only telling me what's about to happen.
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