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00:18:49  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ping
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00:26:45  <trevnorris>TooTallNate: have a sec?
00:27:02  <TooTallNate>trevnorris: sup?
00:28:48  <trevnorris>TooTallNate: so, i'm setting a char* = NULL, but when I fprintf the %p it still shows the address where the memory existed. that make any sense?
00:29:12  <rvagg>isaacs: thanks!
00:33:14  <TooTallNate>trevnorris: ummm.. do you have some code to see?
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00:35:18  <trevnorris>TooTallNate: sure. one min
00:36:49  <trevnorris>TooTallNate: wait. nm. got it. thanks. :)
00:37:00  <TooTallNate>for shoi
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02:08:14  <LOUDBOT>YOU TAKE ME HIGHER THAN I'VE EVER BEEN BABY
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02:54:10  <othiym23>tjfontaine: we need to figure out how I can ship the polyfill if {create,add,remove}AsyncListener moves from process. -> require('tracing')
02:54:22  <othiym23>and we need to decide that interface soon, because of the downstream consequences
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03:22:36  <tjfontaine>othiym23: what makes it difficult for you in the polyfill in terms of require('tracing'), my ability to provide a pure js solution?
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04:58:27  <trevnorris>othiym23: tjfontaine owns the "tracing" module. and iirc if you install a module but run Node that has a native module by the same name, won't the installed module be ignored?
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04:59:11  <trevnorris>othiym23: if that's the case you, or someone, could publish the "tracing" module so everyone can just do "require('tracing');" no matter the node version
05:01:09  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: do you have like a brief API doc outlining what you are expecting in tracing? and do you care much how the async listener side is implemented?
05:02:45  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: because at the very least I could do tracing.addAsyncListener([provider,] callbacksObj[, userStorage]);
05:03:05  <othiym23>trevnorris: I know, but there are coordination issues involved
05:03:27  <othiym23>it's another step in my workflow to push out fixes to the polyfill if I gotta put it in a module controlled by somebody else
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05:03:33  <trevnorris>othiym23: oh, totally agree. just want to properly understand the issue. :)
05:04:03  <othiym23>tbh, it was a lot simpler when the asyncListener stuff was just living on the process object
05:04:13  <trevnorris>well, if tjfontaine controls it maybe he'll just hand over control since you're the more likely to handle this.
05:04:14  <othiym23>and this feels like a pretty late, breaking change
05:04:24  <othiym23>not super enthusiastic about it because of the hoops it adds
05:05:00  <trevnorris>yeah... I agree. it's just that it always did feel sort of awkward living on the process object
05:05:18  <trevnorris>and I do feel for you. you've gone to great lengths to make this work well. i'm very impressed with what you've done
05:05:58  <trevnorris>from my side, I feel like we're defining a totally new standard of how to track performance for a JS application
05:06:21  <trevnorris>*track performance/usage/call stacks/etc.
05:06:40  <othiym23>tjfontaine: the difficulty is just managing versioning and distribution, if I have the ability to push to a shared repo and publish new versions of the polyfill a lot of my complaints go away
05:07:11  <trevnorris>npm probably doesn't support the ability to have multiple publishers, right?
05:08:30  <othiym23>I don't think so, but I've never had to do it before
05:08:46  <othiym23>groundwater and I share the credentials for New Relic under a newrelic account
05:10:01  <trevnorris>yeah... it seems like things would be great if tjfontaine controlled the repo but you had commit and publish rights.
05:11:00  <trevnorris>othiym23: ah, great: https://npmjs.org/doc/cli/npm-owner.html
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05:12:09  <othiym23>that would be fine with me
05:12:16  <trevnorris>cool. tjfontaine thoughts?
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09:36:16  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Fedor Indutny master * 280469f : test: build spawn_fs_open only on unixes - http://git.io/JXy-Rw
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16:28:56  <indutny>heya
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16:33:59  <isaacs>rvagg: pong!
16:34:07  <isaacs>rvagg: FullfatDB! It is ready for you.
16:34:21  <isaacs>rvagg: start your replicators
16:36:21  <tjfontaine>gday
16:38:09  <tjfontaine>othiym23: totally not a problem for you to have access to the polyfill
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16:48:04  <piscisaureus>tjfontaine: hey, what's the status on execSymc? Do you need my help there?
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16:53:23  <tjfontaine>piscisaureus: if you want, I'm just going to be spending most of my time right now finishing up with trevor before he goes on paternity leave
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16:53:39  <tjfontaine>bah why aren't you identified with services :)
16:53:59  <piscisaureus>tjfontaine: huh - I am identified?
16:54:26  <piscisaureus>tjfontaine: but I have no +v in node-core I think
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17:29:39  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Fedor Indutny master * 7301d21 : gyp: qualify `library` variable - http://git.io/ANAv6g
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17:46:08  <indutny>hey people
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17:46:15  <indutny>mind reviewing https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7039 and https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7049 ?
17:46:17  <indutny>tjfontaine: ^
17:46:19  <indutny>trevnorris: ^
17:46:23  <indutny>or anyone else
17:48:57  <tjfontaine>sure moment
17:49:11  <tjfontaine>indutny: you know about #node-ci btw for all the fun jenkins output? :)
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17:59:57  <indutny>nope
18:00:13  <tjfontaine>indutny: the new line changes in messages are about an implicit printf?
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18:15:44  <othiym23>tjfontaine: thanks
18:16:01  <othiym23>tjfontaine: is the idea to keep the {create,add,remove}AsyncListener naming on tracing?
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18:18:20  <tjfontaine>othiym23: I see no particular reason to change it, the idea of making it more like an EE interface doesn't have to be done for 0.12, and given enough time to gestate could probably find a way into the the singular `tracing.on()` interface as opposed to having to do something special for `tracing.onAsync()`
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18:19:43  <othiym23>OK, good
18:20:05  <othiym23>I want to make the necessary changes this week so I can get it into CLS and node-newrelic
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18:20:32  <othiym23>that does make it tough to support 0.11.11, by the by, because it's a one-off version with a different API
18:20:36  <othiym23>but I can probably make it happen
18:20:50  <tjfontaine>I think the proposed mechanism of tracing.addAL([provider,] cbs[, userData]) makes the most sense
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18:21:09  <tjfontaine>I think you can tell people on 0.11 to FRO?
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18:37:57  <othiym23>well, part of the reason for urgency on my end is that people are filing bugs on node-newrelic about it breaking on the latest version of Node
18:38:09  <tjfontaine>cute
18:38:10  <othiym23>in at least one case, they didn't even know they were running a version considered unstable
18:38:18  <tjfontaine>sigh
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18:56:17  <tjfontaine>:132
18:56:21  <tjfontaine>WW
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19:26:18  <indutny>tjfontaine: yes
19:26:27  <indutny>I think it is better this way
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19:40:21  <MI6>joyent/node: Fedor Indutny master * 528a3ce : tls: more session configuration options, methods - http://git.io/8yC5bg
19:40:26  <indutny>yikes
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19:41:58  <trevnorris>indutny: that's what I like to hear in the morning. ;)
19:42:09  <indutny>haha
19:42:28  <indutny>the data could not be yanked from sess
19:42:31  <indutny>sorry, already landed :)
19:42:38  <indutny>this is an informational method anyway
19:42:43  <indutny>there is not much use in it
19:42:46  <trevnorris>that's cool :)
19:42:52  <indutny>since there is no way to load ticket in openssl yet
19:43:02  <indutny>I need to think about it
19:43:27  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ok cool. if you want to land the minimal tracing PR i'll land mine then get to work on migrating it over to the tracing module.
19:43:43  <trevnorris>indutny: well, better you than me. nice job btw.
19:43:54  <indutny>thank you
19:45:24  <trevnorris>othiym23: you think you'll be able to support the {add,create}AL([provider,] cbs[, userData]) API? I think you'd only need to support a subset of the providers.
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19:48:32  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: I'll push this stuff right now
19:48:38  <indutny>tjfontaine: trevnorris: what about https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7049 ?
19:49:18  <tjfontaine>fuck you centos and your shitty ass fucking compiler
19:51:27  <MI6>joyent/node: Timothy J Fontaine master * 1d2fab3 : doc: document the tracing api (+4 more commits) - http://git.io/pko6Ag
19:52:11  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: ^^
19:54:32  <tjfontaine>fuck you know what I forgot to do
19:54:57  <tjfontaine>ok jslint and cpplint do pass, phew
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19:57:29  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: thanks.
19:57:51  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: and you're fine with https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/6923 ?
19:58:27  <tjfontaine>yes, I was just expecting that patch to actually have the check in the firing of the callbacks for watched providers
19:58:52  <trevnorris>no. wanted to wait until the tracing integration.
19:59:07  <trevnorris>but the new api shouldn't be hard to implement.
19:59:15  <tjfontaine>well js api aside, the c++ work could still be done
19:59:19  <tjfontaine>but its' fine to land as that
19:59:22  <trevnorris>cool
20:00:16  <tjfontaine>PROVIDER_NONE should be 0 in the enum I guess
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20:54:46  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ah, good point.
20:58:09  <othiym23>trevnorris: I'd really like to push that beyond 0.12
20:58:19  <othiym23>it's a lot of work, and my actual job is pretty demanding right now
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21:00:12  <trevnorris>heh. othiym23, haven't you noticed we're taking you over. soon you'll be one of us. :P
21:01:38  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: honestly i'm sort of digging the idea of having a Node specific error mechanism. there's a lot we could do with them, like attaching the calling context.
21:01:44  <trevnorris>DAMN YOU ALL!!!
21:01:45  <LOUDBOT>SOME PEOPLE DON'T KNOW HOW TO HAVE GOOD, QUESTIONABLY-CLEAN FUN
21:01:54  <trevnorris>when did I actually start caring about debugging
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21:04:51  <othiym23>trevnorris: I've got too many balls in the air right now :/
21:04:57  <othiym23>and I'm not a very good juggler
21:05:57  <trevnorris>no worries. i'm the same way.
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21:16:08  <trevnorris>othiym23: what do you think about a NodeError/NodeTypeError/etc.?
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21:16:57  <othiym23>trevnorris: check out this thread: http://esdiscuss.org/topic/error-objects-in-w3c-apis
21:17:25  <othiym23>if there's a standard vocabulary of extra properties and accessors that we want to have across Node, we should go for it
21:17:57  <othiym23>but in general, given that there aren't type guards on catch clauses until ES7 (if ever), I'm not sure it makes sense to specialize Error much
21:18:16  <trevnorris>oy, standards committees...
21:18:26  <othiym23>you have no idea, man
21:18:34  <othiym23>es-discuss is extremely aggravating right now
21:18:55  <othiym23>but the basic discussion about subclassing and exception hierarchies is worth reading through
21:19:01  <trevnorris>please don't tell me my little ES6 comment didn't make it in there somehow.
21:19:30  <othiym23>haha no, and even if it did, nobody would care
21:19:41  <trevnorris>anyways, personally I think they're going bat shit insane with the language. but whatever.
21:19:42  <othiym23>like 2/3 of es-discuss is Mozilla people, and they're all over the map
21:19:46  <trevnorris>heh
21:20:08  <trevnorris>the idea is mainly to standardize what information we can expect from a Node Error
21:20:29  <trevnorris>like, does it have an error code (e.g. ECONNECT), can I access the context from the callsite, etc
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21:21:12  <othiym23>yeah, I use expando properties on Error objects for that in node-newrelic
21:21:33  <othiym23>mostly because I'm assuming that errors are totally messing with the JIT anyway
21:21:39  <trevnorris>i mean, if we had an error.caller property that contained the calling context I would have been saved like a full weeks worth of work.
21:21:48  <othiym23>I've been thinking about subclassing Error for node-newrelic lately, though
21:21:50  <trevnorris>yes they very much do
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21:22:21  <trevnorris>and one reason I don't get iterators. why the hell did someone think it was a good idea to throw an error to dictate logic flow?
21:22:23  <othiym23>because I have a lot of state I need to append to errors when connection failures happen to New Relic
21:22:43  <othiym23>just consider it an incentive for the V8 team to work on that chunk of the JIT
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21:22:52  <trevnorris>yeah. errors jack with performance anyways, and I figure that at that point they should be more worried about debugging anyways
21:22:59  <othiym23>the discussions about the iterator protocol were very long and nuanced
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21:23:24  <othiym23>I'm not sure I could tell you how it landed on that version of the spec without doing extensive research
21:24:01  <trevnorris>in that post, it mentions using errors to track async call chains. do people realize how expensive that would be?
21:26:28  <othiym23>remember that they've already added promises to the language spec and are going to be using them all over w3c APIs
21:26:40  <othiym23>so performance isn't the primary concern here
21:26:47  <othiym23>(specifying correct behavior is)
21:27:13  <trevnorris>oy, hell. javascript is turning into the bastard child of every other programing language that's ever existed.
21:27:30  <othiym23>"turning into"?
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21:27:49  <trevnorris>heh.
21:28:31  <trevnorris>at first it was the bastard child of just a few. but now it has language features of almost every popular-ish language.
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21:31:49  <othiym23>as soon as a language is associated with a standardization effort, that's almost inevitable
21:32:04  <trevnorris>:-/
21:32:07  <othiym23>and JavaScript is the language that powers the web platform, so it's got even more stakeholders than most languages
21:32:55  <trevnorris>well i'd like to think that standards won't keep the language from being fast
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21:34:08  <MI6>joyent/node: Trevor Norris master * d9e1e4c : env: add watched_providers for AsyncListener (+2 more commits) - http://git.io/73FN3Q
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21:37:02  <trevnorris>othiym23: so you're saying that future w3 js api's will do things like return promises by default?
21:37:12  <Domenic_>in the present
21:37:21  <Domenic_>I think there are 3 Chrome APIs shipping in 32 that return promises
21:37:44  <Domenic_>not Chrome APIs, rather W3C APIs shipping in Chrome 32
21:37:51  <trevnorris>Domenic_: but those are Chrome, not v8.
21:38:09  <trevnorris>or does the latest v8 support promises by default?
21:38:10  <rendar>what are w3c apis?
21:38:15  <Domenic_>sure, I thought you were talking about W3C APIs?
21:38:39  <Domenic_>the latest v8 supports promises behind a flag. the latest blink supports promises without a flag. it's typedarrays all over again basically
21:38:41  <rendar>are you refering to this? http://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/script
21:38:49  <trevnorris>technically i'm only concerned about the APIs that v8 natively supports.
21:38:52  <Domenic_>rendar: no we are talking about APIs designed by the W3C
21:38:53  <trevnorris>ah, ok
21:39:24  <Domenic_>(or more accurately, APIs specified in W3C and WHATWG specs)
21:39:47  <rendar>Domenic_: i see
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22:00:30  <rvagg>isaacs: Checkpointed source sequence 83444, current source sequence 86130, progress 96%
22:00:48  <rvagg>isaacs: been stuck at that overnight, got to that point relatively quickly and without any troubles
22:01:52  <isaacs>rvagg: that's... weird?
22:02:02  * c4milojoined
22:02:02  <isaacs>rvagg: is this with a new fresh db, or the same old one?
22:02:08  <rvagg>totally fresh
22:02:36  <rvagg>isaacs: I've just restarted couch and logs are giving me lots of "Retrying fetch and update of document `foo` due to out of sync attachment stubs."
22:02:46  <rvagg>no actual errors in the logs beside those atm
22:04:40  * c4milo_quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:06:12  <isaacs>rvagg: weeeird?
22:06:17  <isaacs>rvagg: which doc? or actually "foo"?
22:06:19  * c4miloquit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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22:07:28  <rvagg>isaacs: not foo, lots of them, last one is `haw`
22:07:41  <isaacs>ok
22:07:44  <rvagg>isaacs: [Wed, 05 Feb 2014 22:05:27 GMT] [error] [<0.7117.0>] Retrying fetch and update of document `haw` due to out of sync attachment stubs. Missing revisions are: 71-3a55641b2cd662bb7261fbfd95114a20
22:08:15  * c4milojoined
22:08:41  <rvagg>oh, that restart seems to have prompted movement, up to 98% now, the errors have stopped in logs
22:09:51  <isaacs>i just re-saved "haw"
22:09:54  <isaacs>to flush it throuhg
22:10:25  <rvagg>segment2 just showed up in logs
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22:22:21  <rvagg>isaacs: 100%, woo!
22:22:49  <isaacs>rvagg: nice!
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22:26:58  <isaacs>rvagg: flushed segment2 just for good measure
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22:31:01  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: you think something like https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/6502 will ever land, or can I close the PR?
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23:13:41  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: pign
23:13:43  <trevnorris>ping
23:13:50  <othiym23>pigg'n
23:13:55  <trevnorris>heh
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23:35:38  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: pong
23:36:11  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: was just wondering about some initialization craziness, but think I got it figured out. you can comment on the PR if you don't like it. :)
23:36:31  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: EEO is interesting, it's not going to make 0.12, I've just set the milestone to future
23:36:39  <trevnorris>ok
23:36:40  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: okey dokey
23:36:44  <trevnorris>sure
23:38:16  <tjfontaine>so in that AL PR you didn't quite catch my meaning, PROVIDER_UNKNOWN is different from PROVIDER_NONE
23:38:26  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/7055
23:38:29  <tjfontaine>PROVIDER_NONE is literal 0, not 1 << 0
23:38:47  <tjfontaine>which would be a sentinel of "not watching anything"
23:38:49  <trevnorris>ah crap. sorry
23:39:00  <tjfontaine>where as PROVIDER_UNKNOWN is "I'm something but no idea what" :)
23:39:09  <tjfontaine>it's questionable if unknown should exist
23:39:29  <trevnorris>yeah. the reason I removed UNKNOWN was because it was no longer used
23:39:40  <tjfontaine>right, it was a transitional piece from my implementation
23:39:42  <trevnorris>hence the mixup in my interpretation of what you were saying
23:39:45  <tjfontaine>nod
23:39:52  <trevnorris>sorry about that
23:39:57  <tjfontaine>no biggie
23:40:06  <trevnorris>anyways. i managed to move pretty much all of AL into tracing.
23:40:19  <trevnorris>had to do some initialization hackery to get it working, but the code feels better there.
23:40:21  <tjfontaine>ya I'm looking into it
23:41:47  <trevnorris>oh wait. I can improve that.
23:42:30  <tjfontaine>I think we want to put a wider scoped tracing and conditionally require it in src/node.js
23:43:33  <trevnorris>how do you mean "conditionally require"?
23:43:46  <tjfontaine>if (!tracing) tracing = require('tracing')
23:43:52  <tjfontaine>I think we use that pattern elsewhere in that file
23:45:31  <trevnorris>well, we do withing a single setup scope. but not in the outermost scope.
23:45:48  <trevnorris>just forced pushed the change to remove the implicit code in the error handler.
23:46:46  <trevnorris>nothing in src/node.js reaches the outer-most scope. so I kept that the same.
23:47:02  <tjfontaine>no there's a scope where all the setups can reach though, right?
23:48:16  <tjfontaine>never mind, it's not a big deal
23:48:56  <trevnorris>there's startup(), then a bunch of methods attach themselves to startup and are run from startup.
23:49:09  <trevnorris>but no variable declarations exist out side of each of those.
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23:49:34  <trevnorris>well, one _did_ (I put it there) but removed it because it was ugly.
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23:51:21  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: also, has it never bothered you that global.setTimeout != require('timers').setTimeout ?
23:52:07  <tjfontaine>not particularly, it bothers me more that there is process.hrtime :)
23:52:36  <trevnorris>why? what would you rather it be?
23:52:45  <tjfontaine>require('timers').hrtime()
23:52:48  <trevnorris>ah, ok.
23:52:53  <tjfontaine>it *is* in fact, a timer :)
23:52:59  <tjfontaine>anyway
23:53:06  <trevnorris>heh
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23:54:36  <trevnorris>want to go look how hrtime() picks its "arbitrary time in the past"
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