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00:21:18  <trevnorris>yeay! new class! v8::PersistentBase. man, tjfontaine how could even an abstraction layer keep up w/ this?
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00:23:12  <trevnorris>haha. this comment is rich: ".. is subject to future changes" and when is any of v8 not subject to change at their whim?
00:25:30  <superjoe>trevnorris: and watch that bit be the part that actually does not change
00:25:42  <trevnorris>hehe
00:26:13  <trevnorris>hueniverse: ooh. there's a 3.23 feature that I think you'll like :)
00:26:48  <trevnorris>oh wait. it's not new. at least.... crap. lemme check
00:27:36  <trevnorris>hueniverse: ok yeah, it's new
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00:52:46  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: an abstraction layer can stay up with it because you're only changing in one place, instead of an entire code base
00:54:07  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: doy ;) I mean they're changing the fundamental workings of v8. how Persistents interact, the fact that there's now a base class for persistents that do allow assigning. or does the abstraction layer you have in mind not go that deep?
00:55:42  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: the abstraction layer is only there to handle the 90% workload case, which often is actually the case of our own core libraries, mostly just handling objection creation, manipulation, gc rooting, as well function calling
00:56:23  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: as far as the interaction between persistent and locals, mine already separates out that logic such that you don't really treat them as the same
00:56:49  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ok. when I have some time i'll write up some how we did and how we now do examples. i'd like to see if your proposed abstraction can work around those.
00:57:24  <trevnorris>this one shouldn't be a problem, but like w/ function calling v8 now accepts v8::Value's not just v8::Object's
00:57:53  <trevnorris>which is simple because of the inheritance model, but wondering if there are any of those that would make it more difficult
01:00:56  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: if it can, and if it can be done w/ minimal if any overhead, the idea is slowly growing on me. :)
01:01:47  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: also, looks like they're going to be releasing 3.24 before v0.12 release. ironically the API will in some ways be closer to what we have.
01:02:00  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: i'd move that if it proves to be that way we update
01:03:47  <trevnorris>oh freak. how have I not noticed Isolate::{Get,Set}Data() ? Those would be perfect to quickly retrieve state, and set a pointer to the active Environment for quick retrieval.
01:04:20  <trevnorris>ok. well. crap. i need to prep my talk for node summit. but putting that on my list of things to try out later.
01:06:28  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ok, and ktap is pretty freakin cool. thanks for the tip. :)
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01:13:14  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: ya these are all things we can be discussing :)
01:15:15  <hueniverse>trevnorris: 3.23?!
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01:16:19  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: sorry your friday was boring :)
01:16:27  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: I blame you
01:16:29  <trevnorris>hueniverse: we haven't upgraded yet, but an upcoming API is:
01:16:31  <trevnorris> void ConfigureDefaults(uint64_t physical_memory,
01:16:31  <trevnorris> uint32_t number_of_processors);
01:16:45  <trevnorris>you just set it and forget it. v8 takes care of the rest :)
01:16:49  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: I'm such a bastard, I suck the fun out of everything
01:17:00  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: riiiight
01:17:06  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: of course my employer thinks otherwise
01:17:15  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: heh
01:17:25  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: how did the upstream services handle it?
01:17:33  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: hey. the docs say it all:
01:17:33  <trevnorris> * Configures the constraints with reasonable default values based on the
01:17:33  <trevnorris> * capabilities of the current device the VM is running on.
01:17:37  <hueniverse>overall we did great
01:18:21  <hueniverse>I think all the retailers in our class (I'm being politically correct :-)) left a lot of money on the table by not being able to fully scale to this 5 hours peak
01:18:36  <hueniverse>and there is an argument to be made that people eventually bought what they wanted
01:18:39  <hueniverse>but
01:18:44  <hueniverse>things worked out
01:18:57  <tjfontaine>excellent, I'm excited to hear your boring talk :D
01:19:01  <hueniverse>It really was a prefect storm of luck
01:19:20  <hueniverse>because just prior to BF, everything was going the wrong way
01:19:36  <hueniverse>last stress test I lost 44 out of 52 node proxy servers
01:19:37  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ever since you took over releases, the release notes are freaking long
01:19:47  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: sorry, I guess
01:19:54  <trevnorris>heh
01:19:57  <tjfontaine>I can trim them down more
01:20:19  <tjfontaine>do you mean for 0.11 or 0.10?
01:20:37  <trevnorris>nah, i'm just giving you a hard time.
01:20:38  <tjfontaine>it's hard to find the right balance for unstables between what's a good time to release vs enough time to get things done
01:20:42  <tjfontaine>nod
01:21:03  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: jeepers
01:21:09  <trevnorris>it's better than v8's: "Performance and stability improvements for all platforms." :P
01:21:18  <tjfontaine>heh
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01:21:39  <trevnorris>hueniverse: yeah, so other than the strange gc thing, servers run well for you?
01:23:08  <trevnorris>othiym23: as soon as node summit is over i'm finishing redoing async listeners.
01:23:37  <trevnorris>like heck i'm letting your shim beat my patch.
01:27:54  <MI6>joyent/libuv: piscisaureus created branch add-contributing - http://git.io/Q8SxXA
01:29:06  <piscisaureus_>nooo
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01:30:04  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Bert Belder add-contributing * 3cfa8f3 : doc: add guidelines for contributing - http://git.io/VE7DJw
01:31:05  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: hey, you. I noticed that removing the HandleScope around uv_run doesn't preclude modules from making the global object creation mistake.
01:31:27  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: you mean that modules can cause the process to die because of it?
01:31:29  <MI6>libuv-review: #90 FAILURE http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-review/90/
01:31:42  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: i mean they can leak handles the way we were.
01:31:50  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: in the v0.10 branch?
01:32:03  <trevnorris>only tested on master.
01:32:08  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: pretty much. just those handful crazy runners
01:32:14  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: but none crashed
01:32:18  <hueniverse>and kept working
01:32:19  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: how can they leak in master?
01:32:22  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: excellent.
01:32:42  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: i mean. you know how we removed the HandleScope around uv_run so node would die if we leaked a handle?
01:32:53  <MI6>libuv-review: #91 FAILURE http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-review/91/
01:33:00  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: that doesn't happen in modules. like the module execution is wrapped in a HandleScope
01:33:09  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: maybe it is
01:33:18  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: depends on if they're using libuv directly or not
01:33:47  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: if they create v8 handles out of a libuv callback they can leak if they dont' have a handlescope
01:33:58  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: yeah. so basically two things. we can remove it from v0.10 uv_run w/o affecting user's modules. and B, we should remove it all together in master so the app dies hard if they leak one.
01:34:06  <tjfontaine>we can't remove it from v0.10
01:34:06  <trevnorris>*users'
01:34:13  <trevnorris>why not? it won't affect user-land
01:34:13  <tjfontaine>we can add a handlescope to makecallback
01:34:16  <tjfontaine>yes it will
01:34:36  <trevnorris>how if leaking a handle won't cause the app to crash?
01:34:49  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: we really REALLY didn't want to pass 100% traffic through node given the last few weeks. and that we only got 0.10.22 in a week before.
01:34:58  <tjfontaine>previously the app didn't crash, it just leaked, now it will crash, that's a pretty big change
01:35:12  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: ya, I know, I was similarly scared
01:35:20  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: what i'm saying is that user modules _won't_ crash. since their execution is wrapped in a HandleScope.
01:35:33  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: we had a failover test 3 days before
01:35:38  <hueniverse>it failed BAD
01:35:38  <trevnorris>so it'll still allow us to track any potential leaks in core, but not affect users.
01:35:44  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: you're saying we should remove HandleScope before uv_run?
01:35:49  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: in v0.10
01:36:02  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: how bad is that?
01:36:04  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: yeah. and that it won't affect user-land modules. i'll write a test case just to make sure. but i'm pretty sure that's the case.
01:36:19  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: it will, if they come in on a uv callback
01:36:33  <tjfontaine>like a timer or their own uv_handle
01:37:11  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: when we took node down, the load balancer too 20 (!) minutes to react
01:37:23  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: jesus.
01:37:26  <hueniverse>tjfontaine: and when it did, Java errors went nuts
01:37:29  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: ah, ok. sorry, forgot about that case.
01:37:35  <hueniverse>turns out Java got much better with node in front
01:37:36  <hueniverse>:-)
01:37:39  <tjfontaine>hahah
01:38:11  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: you just got OH'd :P
01:38:20  <hueniverse>heh
01:38:28  <hueniverse>I guess I need to watch out what I say around you
01:38:31  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Bert Belder add-contributing * fe682e1 : doc: add guidelines for contributing - http://git.io/0TPA6Q
01:38:45  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: :P
01:38:54  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: I think I've heard you say that before anyway
01:39:40  <hueniverse>this is a public channel...
01:39:46  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: I think the best thing we can do for our users is to add a HandleScope to MakeCallback
01:39:50  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: and is logged as well
01:39:58  <MI6>libuv-review: #92 FAILURE http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-review/92/
01:40:00  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: tinie tiny, github documents preference using https:// over git://.
01:40:14  <hueniverse>so the day before BF, we added another 24 vms
01:40:29  <piscisaureus_>trevnorris: I don't really understand.
01:40:36  <hueniverse>that proved to be a total waste of time :-)
01:40:41  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: heh
01:40:51  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: you have git://github.com/joyent/libuv.git, instead github says to use https://github.com/joyent/libuv.git
01:41:21  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: it's hard to know something when it's missing. you know the reason for not having a HandleScope there to begin w/?
01:41:49  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: it seriously doesn't matter. :)
01:42:07  <piscisaureus_>trevnorris: right, ok, I can change that
01:42:16  <piscisaureus_>trevnorris: I'm not landing yet. Feel free to review.
01:42:18  <tjfontaine>trevnorris: well, there is a certain amount of overhead included in having it, but it probably barely registers in the real world
01:42:34  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: ah, ok.
01:43:06  <trevnorris>tjfontaine: yeah. i'll do some benchmarks. wonder if part of it was that the most common case was to call a variant of MakeCalback, which calls MakeCallback.
01:43:18  <trevnorris>thus giving two handlescopes. eh, whatever.
01:43:33  <tjfontaine>it's gotta be noise, because there's 0 handles created between them generally
01:43:42  <tjfontaine>anyway
01:44:41  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Bert Belder add-contributing * dc35ec1 : change github urls as suggested by trevnorris - http://git.io/KxYY7w
01:45:25  <hueniverse>at one point the team wanted to deploy 0.11 just to make it more interesting...
01:45:41  <trevnorris>hueniverse: ooh. I want to be there :)
01:45:47  <trevnorris>that should be a fun experiment
01:45:49  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: ha ha ha
01:45:54  <MI6>libuv-review: #93 FAILURE http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-review/93/
01:45:56  <tjfontaine>hueniverse: you just want to give me a heart attack
01:46:41  <hueniverse>I would have done 2 servers with 0.11 if domains were not completely broken for us in latest .11
01:47:09  <hueniverse>but I did do a release in the middle of BF
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01:49:31  <tjfontaine>heh
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01:50:55  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: might want to include the section about not making gender/race/etc. assumptions to node's CONTRIBUTING.md before we get stabbed in the face again.
01:52:25  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: overall lgtm
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01:55:44  <piscisaureus_>trevnorris: let's get this landed and then add that to node too
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01:56:05  <piscisaureus_>trevnorris: node has no style guidelines atm - so it doesn't really fit in very well
01:56:18  <piscisaureus_>trevnorris: so probably the right thing to do would be to add both
01:58:17  <piscisaureus_>trevnorris: I'm so-so on that. I actually considered ripping the clone section out
01:58:23  <piscisaureus_>since I don't want to write a git tutorial there
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02:21:07  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Bert Belder add-contributing * 0b6b5af : doc: add guidelines for contributing - http://git.io/SUqiSg
02:22:44  <MI6>libuv-review: #94 FAILURE http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-review/94/
02:23:35  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Bert Belder master * 39db225 : doc: add guidelines for contributing - http://git.io/8W4pTA
02:27:59  <MI6>libuv-master: #364 UNSTABLE windows (5/197) smartos (3/198) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master/364/
02:30:55  <MI6>libuv-master-gyp: #317 UNSTABLE smartos-ia32 (4/198) windows-x64 (5/197) smartos-x64 (3/198) windows-ia32 (5/197) osx-x64 (1/199) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master-gyp/317/
02:31:37  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: well, the majority of the style guide is in jslint
02:31:55  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: so the only parts that may need mentioning are for comments.
02:32:25  <piscisaureus_>Well for node it's important to care for docs
02:32:29  <piscisaureus_>libuv has no docs
02:32:33  <piscisaureus_>it has only comments
02:32:37  <piscisaureus_>and some are more doc-y than others
02:32:53  <trevnorris>piscisaureus_: imo include/uv.h is the docs. and the tests are the examples.
02:33:04  <trevnorris>that's been enough for me so far
02:33:13  <piscisaureus_>yes uv.h is the docs so "uv.h" comments count as docs :)
02:33:20  <piscisaureus_>the rest is just comments
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02:45:08  <superjoe>goddamit
02:46:09  <superjoe>he's consistently produced high quality work and now he's gone because of one little slip up and then everyone giving him WAY too much of a hard time
02:46:27  <MI6>libuv-node-integration: #330 UNSTABLE osx-x64 (1/680) osx-ia32 (1/680) smartos-x64 (7/680) smartos-ia32 (5/680) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-node-integration/330/
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04:26:20  <MI6>libuv-master: #365 UNSTABLE windows (5/197) smartos (3/198) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master/365/
04:29:04  <MI6>libuv-master-gyp: #318 UNSTABLE smartos-ia32 (3/198) windows-x64 (5/197) smartos-x64 (5/198) windows-ia32 (5/197) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master-gyp/318/
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06:50:27  <aranhoide>what's the main repository of joyent's ringbuffer.c, as used in bud? https://github.com/indutny/bud/tree/master/deps/ringbuffer
06:50:41  <aranhoide>I thing I found a minor buglet
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06:52:31  <aranhoide>or actually, it might even be a quite serious one indeed
06:54:11  <trevnorris>signing off
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07:17:51  <aranhoide>hm nope, not serious at all
07:19:24  <piscisaureus_>I'm afraid there's nobody left to fix it. I recommend you use libev, libevent or boost.
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11:23:04  <Ralt>https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun
11:23:06  <Ralt>really?!
11:23:53  <Ralt>[21:44:10] okay, node.js community - i think it's time you and me had a break for a while
11:23:57  <Ralt>understandable :|
11:25:54  <rendar> that eliminated the use of a gendered pronoun in libuv. -- what it refers about?
11:26:18  <rendar>a gendered pronoun like he/her/his/she?
11:27:08  <Ralt>yeah
11:27:20  <Ralt>it's about this PR https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015
11:29:01  <rendar>unbeliveable
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12:51:56  <indutny>heya
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12:53:35  <inolen>\o
12:56:04  <mmalecki>hey indutny
12:56:18  <indutny>working on https://github.com/indutny/asn1.js today :)
12:56:29  <indutny>I really enjoy it's DSL https://github.com/indutny/asn1.js/blob/master/lib/modules/rfc2560.js
12:57:11  <mmalecki>nice indutny
12:57:22  <mmalecki>anyone wants to chime in on https://github.com/isaacs/npmjs.org/issues/128 ?
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15:16:22  <creationix>I miss bnoordhuis
15:17:23  * mmaleckisame
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15:18:03  <creationix>anyone want to review my writeup on the incident? I don't want to cause more rage, just increase understand and hopefully speed up healing
15:18:26  <mmalecki>creationix: sure. not a native speaker, but interested nonethless
15:18:33  <creationix>isaacs, I would especially like it if you had a change to correct any errors in my story
15:18:40  <mmalecki>(I probably spelled nonethless wrong)
15:19:27  <creationix>s/change/chance/
15:19:40  <creationix>mmalecki, it's ok, I'm dyslexic, I can't spell english words either
15:20:38  <MI6>nodejs-master: #739 UNSTABLE osx-x64 (1/680) smartos-ia32 (6/680) linux-x64 (1/680) smartos-x64 (7/680) osx-ia32 (1/680) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-master/739/
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15:21:59  <mmalecki>creationix: oh, really? never noticed that, you're doing really great job hiding it :)
15:22:14  <creationix>spell check is my friend
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15:22:27  <mmalecki>even on IRC :) ?
15:22:53  <creationix>yep, xchat
15:23:10  <mmalecki>oh, nice. I think I'd go insane with spell checking in my IRC tbh
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15:38:13  <creationix>hmm, piscisaureus is gone too
15:38:53  <creationix>of course, it is Sunday afternoon here in Europe, I should go walk and take pictures of Florence while I wait for people to wake up
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16:28:06  <indutny>haha
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17:53:21  <MI6>libuv-master: #366 UNSTABLE windows (5/197) smartos (4/198) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master/366/
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18:12:01  <MI6>libuv-node-integration: #332 UNSTABLE osx-x64 (1/680) osx-ia32 (1/680) smartos-x64 (7/680) smartos-ia32 (5/680) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-node-integration/332/
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19:10:40  <indutny>anyone around interested in ASN.1 ? :)
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21:08:43  <wolfeidau>indutny: asn.1 is a lot of fun
21:09:03  <wolfeidau>indutny: in a crazy self describing binary way
21:09:26  <tjfontaine>indutny: what's different from say https://github.com/mcavage/node-asn1 :)
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21:13:08  <wolfeidau>seems one is BER and one is DER
21:13:41  <wolfeidau>BER is used by LDAP / DNS i believe
21:13:52  <wolfeidau>Basic Encoding Rules (BER)
21:13:53  <tjfontaine>indeed
21:14:07  <tjfontaine>by their powers combined...
21:14:24  <wolfeidau>Distinguished Encoding Rules (DER) is used by certs
21:14:37  <tjfontaine>yup
21:15:13  <wolfeidau>Yeah I am not sure certs use the same IDL?
21:16:27  <wolfeidau>as in ABNF
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21:23:57  <indutny>tjfontaine: well
21:24:09  <indutny>tjfontaine: heya
21:24:16  <indutny>tjfontaine: that one is BER
21:24:22  <indutny>and has no DSL for declaring structs
21:24:26  <indutny>so
21:24:35  <indutny>1. You'll need to write separate code for encode/decoder
21:24:42  <indutny>2. It won't look as it looks in spec
21:24:50  <indutny>tjfontaine: asn1.js is totally different
21:24:54  <indutny>have you seen readme?
21:26:36  <tjfontaine>I'm just seeing why you didn't try and work with combining powers :)
21:27:14  <indutny>haha
21:27:24  <indutny>tjfontaine: well, I need it now
21:27:25  <indutny>for bud
21:27:38  <indutny>tjfontaine: openssl s_client -tls1 -servername blog.indutny.com -connect blog.indutny.com:443 -status
21:27:48  <indutny>tjfontaine: see OCSP Response:
21:28:11  <indutny>and try joyent.com ;)
21:28:15  <indutny>hehe
21:28:24  <tjfontaine>heh
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22:47:05  <yawnt>indutny: ping
22:47:09  <indutny>pong
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23:59:47  <MI6>libuv-master-gyp: #319 UNSTABLE smartos-ia32 (4/198) windows-x64 (5/197) smartos-x64 (4/198) windows-ia32 (6/197) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master-gyp/319/