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00:02:10  <wolfeidau>tjfontaine: that is a classic, but to be honest I wasn't aware of the memory use with c++ thing, I normally use -jn where n is number of cores +1
00:03:31  <wolfeidau>and yeah a lot of old builds blow up with -j either way
00:07:00  <tjfontaine>wolfeidau: c++ compiling requires slightly more memory, but it's really the link step that's bad, particularly so if you're trying to do any LTO (link time optimization)
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00:20:54  <rvagg>isaacs: "i actually think that binary modules shouldn't be uploaded by authors", "that just encourages "works on my machine"-ism" <-- I don't think this should be your problem, Node's beauty is in its "anarchy" and decentralisation and the fact that there isn't really an elite that can tell you what to do
00:21:10  <isaacs>rvagg: ok
00:21:16  <rvagg>isaacs: you should let the community figure it out, people gather around problems like these--"hey, I can compile for win64 if you like"
00:21:21  <isaacs>rvagg: but also, i don't want to grease the path of failure.
00:21:29  <isaacs>rvagg: we've been down that road. it was awful.
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00:21:40  <rvagg>isaacs: plus, if we worry too much about getting infrastructure set up to do builds, this thing is never going to happen cause that's a monster of a problem
00:21:43  <isaacs>rvagg: if anyone else was going to do this, they would have by now.
00:21:54  <isaacs>rvagg: it's a problem that the likes of joyent can solve.
00:22:28  <rvagg>the appjs guys were doing binaries with npm & postinstall, that sort of worked but it's kind of been abandoned
00:24:02  <isaacs>rvagg: that's the thing. it's hard.
00:24:10  <isaacs>rvagg: some problems are best solved by state intervention.
00:24:23  <isaacs>i'm only an anarchist because i'm a pragmatist :)
00:24:27  <rvagg>isaacs: I'd argue for low-hanging fruit first
00:24:29  <isaacs>and anarchy is usually pragmatic
00:24:44  <rvagg>isaacs: anyway, could you comment on the npm issue with the thoughts you've outlined here?
00:24:52  <isaacs>yeah, it's on my list.
00:25:00  <isaacs>like 4th on the list of things to comment on and update.
00:25:02  <rvagg>everyone wants to get windows builds happening (ARGH!) and the ninjablocks guys really want to do arm distributables
00:25:05  <isaacs>bbiab, dinner time :)
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00:28:28  <rvagg>isaacs: fwiw, my concerns with your concerns is that it puts most of the next steps back on you (and/or joyent), and we know how much you have on your plate, so nobody else can push this forward. It'd be nice if could find an easy path to at least get a start, perhaps even a quick-and-dirty to be made more elegant at a later date.
00:30:04  <tjfontaine>I would expect anything done quick and dirty would result in never finding the time to be made elegant later
00:30:38  <tjfontaine>but he could come up with the solution he wants and delegate to me
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00:33:58  <wolfeidau>I am not a big fan of quick and dirty, I prefer experimental and subject to change
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00:46:00  <wolfeidau>tjfontaine: wow just read up on LTO very interesting reading up on how gcc and clang do this
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00:46:52  <rvagg>wolfeidau: quick and dirty = experimental
00:46:55  <rvagg>gotta start somewhere
00:47:08  <rvagg>don't specify too much up front, build and implement and fix from there
00:47:56  <amartens>would be nice if there were public test build environments set up that tied into npm, so that module authors had the opportunity to build (and test!) on platforms that they may not necessarily have access to themselves.
00:48:21  <amartens>but I think that ties into rvagg's concerns above about the hassle of getting infrastructure set up to do builds
00:48:36  <amartens>it's a lovely idea in theory, but it's a huge pain to do
00:48:40  <rvagg>amartens: later! we need to get the basics in place first before we know what a build farm might look like & need to provide
00:48:46  <amartens>oh absolutely
00:49:17  <amartens>for the time being, if someone really wants it built for another platform that they're using‚Ķ well, then they can collaborate with the module author to work out the kinks and build issues on that platform
00:49:37  <amartens>part of the joy of the community approach
00:49:53  <wolfeidau>yeah more a shot at the negative connotations that "quick and dirty" has :)
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01:16:21  <isaacs>rvagg: we actually did the quick and dirty thing a while back. but there are other blockers anyway. we need to get the tgz's out of npm's couch, and we need package signing.
01:16:31  <isaacs>rvagg: until then, it's kind of a non-starter.
01:17:08  <isaacs>rvagg: if someone wants to do quick-n-dirty outside of hte centralized blessed state-sponsored bureaucracy, then that's awesome.
01:17:26  <isaacs>rvagg: but, this is my plan, once signing and external tgz's is landed.
01:18:16  <rvagg>isaacs: so why do we *need* package signing?
01:19:06  <rvagg>but yea, tgz out of couch, that sounds like a must
01:19:15  <isaacs>rvagg: security
01:19:17  <rvagg>or migration away from couch entirely perhaps.... ..
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01:19:18  <isaacs>rvagg: defense in depth
01:19:20  <indutny>hoya
01:19:29  <isaacs>nono couch is 100% fucking perfet for the pkg metadata
01:19:43  <isaacs>rvagg: it is literally designed for exactly my use case
01:20:10  <isaacs>like, in terms of our order of magnitude (present and future), flexible replication needs, all json, all http, etc.
01:20:12  <rvagg>isaacs: what about distributed repositories, can expand with couch and do away with a single point of failure?
01:20:29  <isaacs>rvagg: i'll see your multiple points of failure, and raise you iriscouch HA
01:20:37  <isaacs>(ha = high availability, not laughing at you ;)
01:20:38  <rvagg>cause that single point of failure kind of fails regularly
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01:20:53  <isaacs>rvagg: it fails regularly? that's patently untrue.
01:21:02  <rvagg>while you're in bed!
01:21:40  <rvagg>if we have logs for #node.js, have a search for "npm is down"
01:21:49  <rvagg>sorry, I'm not trying to be antsy here, this isn't a big issue
01:21:56  <rvagg>and getting off track
01:23:05  <isaacs>rvagg: iriscouch has delivered 4-5 9's of availability. npm is down less often than github
01:23:30  <rvagg>ok, great
01:23:35  <isaacs>rvagg: on 2/10 and 2/17, someone asked about npm being down
01:23:39  <isaacs>and on 4/16
01:23:43  <isaacs>digging into the conversations now..
01:23:56  <isaacs>good idea, i should have an alert that sms's me or something when someone says that in irc :)
01:24:40  <isaacs>oh, yeah. 4/16 was spotty availability for a few hours. dns something or other.
01:25:31  <isaacs>2/17 was a false alarm (not npm, was on the other person's end)
01:26:51  <isaacs>was down for a few minutes on 2/10 as well
01:27:07  <isaacs>whic howuldn't have been so bad, really, except npm-www had a bug where that would cause the website to be down until i logged in and fixed it
01:27:17  <isaacs>and peopel go to https://npmjs.org/ to see if the registry is up...
01:27:27  <isaacs>anyway...
01:27:46  <rvagg>yeah.. anyway...
01:27:50  <isaacs>rvagg: the benefits of using the central registry outweigh the costs, imo
01:28:09  <isaacs>rvagg: and, if it wasn't such a pita to replicate, you could easily just take the whole thing, and not even depend on iriscouch
01:28:25  <isaacs>of course, if we move the tarballs out, now your'e depending on joyent, but so are lots of other peoples' websites, so meh.
01:28:38  <isaacs>and if joyent has troubles, iriscouch probably does too, anyway
01:39:33  <isaacs>but, we can do a clever replicator that pulls certain packages, and deps, and grabs the tarballs as well
01:39:42  <isaacs>i want the publish/install experience to be unaffected.
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01:39:49  <isaacs>it should all still Just Work as it does not
01:39:52  <isaacs>*does now
01:39:54  <isaacs>(freudian slip?)
01:43:10  <indutny>is couchdb fast now?
01:43:35  <indutny>I was working in one company that was relying on it
01:43:40  <indutny>and it was a bit awful
01:43:48  <indutny>when there was a lot of clients listening for _changes events
01:43:52  <indutny>ok, anyway
01:43:54  <indutny>time to sleep
01:43:54  <indutny>:)
01:43:56  * indutny&
01:43:56  <LOUDBOT>WATCHING FUTURAMA AT A BAR ON MONDAY
01:43:58  <indutny>isaacs: writev
01:43:59  <indutny>;)
01:44:35  <isaacs>indutny: it's on my list, man
01:44:45  <isaacs>indutny: there's a lot of emails to reply to thesedays.
01:44:58  <isaacs>indutny: it will happen before i sleep again, i promise you that.
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05:45:08  <kellabyte>whats up!
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05:58:07  <isaacs>kellabyte: hola
06:01:32  <kellabyte>hows it going isaacs?
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06:06:32  <isaacs>kellabyte: kewl. massaging Writable.writev into shape.
06:06:56  <kellabyte>isaacs: what does that do?
06:07:31  <isaacs>writev is neat. instead of doing write(char*, len) you can call write(iovec*, count)
06:07:40  <isaacs>and then each iovec struct has a buffer and length
06:07:54  <isaacs>so instead of a bunch of syscalls, you might have just one
06:07:58  <isaacs>huge win for chunked encoding
06:08:22  <kellabyte>ah so like a batch
06:08:28  <kellabyte>what does encoding mean in this context?
06:09:15  <isaacs>kellabyte: in http chunked encoding, you do stuff like: 05\r\nhello\r\n0a
06:09:20  <isaacs>then 10 bytes, etc.
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06:09:57  <isaacs>05\r\nhello\r\n04\r\n, wo\r\n06\r\nld! :)\r\n\r\n
06:10:20  <isaacs>so, in practice that's: write(chunklength); write(crlf); write(chunk); write(crlf); ...
06:10:27  <isaacs>lotta writes
06:10:36  <isaacs>you CAN copy them all to one big buffer, but that's even slower usually
06:10:53  <isaacs>(except when it's not, which is then a kludgey magic number in your code)
06:11:09  <kellabyte>lol
06:13:25  <isaacs>the magic number for node is 128kb in one case.
06:13:28  <isaacs>mostly arbitrary
06:13:40  <isaacs>based on http://localhost benchmarks *-_-^
06:19:54  <wolfeidau>everyone loves a good localhost benchmark :P
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06:23:28  <wolfeidau>I am trying to find the code in libuv which extracts ip information
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06:37:59  <wolfeidau>And the answer to my problem is already fixed, albeit in limbo https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/502 getting the mac address from within node would be cool
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09:50:52  <bajtos>bnoordhuis: good morning ben, i have fixed the issues you have found in my PR https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/5373
09:51:09  <bajtos>bnoordhuis: could you please check if it's ok now?
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10:49:18  <bnoordhuis>ircretary: tell bajtos yep, i'll review it
10:49:18  <ircretary>bnoordhuis: I'll be sure to tell bajtos
10:49:22  <bnoordhuis>ircretary: thanks
10:49:22  <ircretary>bnoordhuis: You're welcome :)
10:50:00  <indutny>hey bnoordhuis
10:50:03  <indutny>good morning
10:50:23  <bnoordhuis>indutny: sup fedor?
10:50:41  <indutny>I'm good, how are you?
10:50:49  <bnoordhuis>same old, same old
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10:52:48  <indutny>bnoordhuis: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/791/files#r3989015
10:53:00  <MI6>joyent/node: Miroslav BajtoŇ° master * 5db936d : debugger: breakpoints in scripts not loaded yet - http://git.io/v81SYg
10:54:18  <bnoordhuis>indutny: yeah... so go fix that :)
10:54:21  <indutny>haha
10:54:30  <bnoordhuis>okay, gotta go again. i'll talk to you later today
10:54:34  <indutny>sure
10:54:35  <indutny>see ya
10:54:40  <bnoordhuis>later!
10:55:50  <indutny>fixed
10:55:52  <indutny>force pushed
10:55:54  <indutny>just FYI
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11:40:00  <MI6>nodejs-master: #178 FAILURE smartos-x64 (4/584) windows-ia32 (148/584) smartos-ia32 (1/584) windows-x64 (144/584) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-master/178/
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13:03:50  <wolfeidau>bnoordhuis: Heya just wondering if you recall why this never got merged in the end https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/502 ? "Add MAC address when enumerating network interfaces"
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13:04:57  <wolfeidau>Just ready his seeya later.. lol
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15:18:10  <indutny>bnoordhuis: hey man
15:18:12  <indutny>back?
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15:54:40  <bnoordhuis>indutny: i am now
15:55:34  <indutny>ok
15:55:38  <indutny>lets land this test :)
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16:44:49  <indutny>bnoordhuis: force pushed
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16:49:05  <bnoordhuis>indutny: in your alloc_cb you could do return uv_buf_init(buf, sizeof(buf))
16:49:15  <indutny>oh, ok
16:49:20  <bnoordhuis>bit shorter but not something that really matters :)
16:49:54  <indutny>fixed
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16:51:41  <isaacs>indutny: hey
16:51:45  <indutny>hoi
16:51:48  <indutny>howdy
16:51:51  <isaacs>indutny: so, i really don't care at all about the interface to handle.writev
16:51:57  <isaacs>indutny: my only concern there is that it's as fast as possible.
16:52:09  <indutny>it shouldn't make it slower
16:52:13  <isaacs>indutny: in my experience, an array of like-typed things is faster than an array of arrays
16:52:21  <indutny>well, there're two arrays anyway
16:52:26  <indutny>but probably you're right
16:52:28  <indutny>ok
16:52:31  <isaacs>indutny: but i'd even be ok with [chunk,enc,chunk,enc...]
16:52:37  <isaacs>to save the extra array
16:52:38  <indutny>yes, that should be better
16:53:05  <isaacs>also, should be built with `new Array(smi)` and then added to with list[i] = xyz
16:53:16  <isaacs>push() is good when yo udon't know the length, or it varies, but in this case, we do know the len
16:53:55  <isaacs>bnoordhuis, tjfontaine: sub-second precision stat's landed recently in master, yes? which operating systems have that?
16:57:18  <isaacs>ah, yes, * | 51f128d Timothy J Fontaine fs: uv_[fl]stat now reports subsecond resolution (5 weeks ago)
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16:58:28  <indutny>isaacs: almost done, running tests
16:58:34  <isaacs>kewl
16:58:53  <bnoordhuis>[% 75|+ 142|- 0]: osx_selectgot some input
16:58:53  <bnoordhuis>with a couple of lines
16:58:54  <bnoordhuis>feel pretty happy
16:59:03  <bnoordhuis>i guess that can't be helped but...
16:59:07  <indutny>haha
16:59:15  <indutny>that was a haiku
16:59:25  <bnoordhuis>isaacs: os x, linux, most of the bsds, solaris
16:59:59  <bnoordhuis>indutny: yeah, but it always gets printed when you run run-tests
17:00:03  <indutny>bnoordhuis: is there any other way to emulate tty input
17:00:05  <indutny>I know
17:00:54  <bnoordhuis>i wonder if it works on jenkins
17:01:05  <indutny>good question
17:01:13  <bnoordhuis>well, we'll find out
17:01:26  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Fedor Indutny v0.10 * ac4e7e7 : stream: fix small nit in select hack, add test - http://git.io/-IjSEA
17:01:33  <indutny>kewl
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17:02:17  <indutny>btw, seems to be working
17:02:19  <indutny>on jenkins
17:02:40  <bnoordhuis>yeah. the os x machine is a laptop, i believe
17:02:53  <bnoordhuis>there's probably a controlling tty
17:03:13  <indutny>yep, anyway
17:03:22  <indutny>we've a test for this stuff now
17:03:49  <indutny>isaacs: force pushed writev-master
17:03:52  <indutny>please take a look
17:04:35  <MI6>libuv-v0.10: #45 UNSTABLE windows (4/187) osx (1/187) smartos (3/186) linux (1/186) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-v0.10/45/
17:05:18  <indutny>bnoordhuis: seems to be working ^
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17:14:06  <MI6>libuv-v0.10-gyp: #8 UNSTABLE windows-x64 (6/187) linux-ia32 (1/186) smartos-ia32 (5/186) osx-x64 (2/187) smartos-x64 (3/186) windows-ia32 (6/187) osx-ia32 (1/187) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-v0.10-gyp/8/
17:16:31  <MI6>libuv-master-gyp: #21 UNSTABLE linux-x64 (1/188) smartos-ia32 (6/188) windows-x64 (5/189) osx-ia32 (1/188) linux-ia32 (2/188) osx-x64 (1/188) windows-ia32 (5/189) smartos-x64 (5/188) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-master-gyp/21/
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17:51:03  <MI6>libuv-node-integration: #34 FAILURE osx-ia32 (1/581) smartos-x64 (5/581) linux-x64 (2/581) windows-x64 (10/581) smartos-ia32 (3/581) windows-ia32 (8/581) linux-ia32 (3/581) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/libuv-node-integration/34/
18:03:51  <tjfontaine>isaacs: all modern (2003+) that we support also support subsecond, the question is more if the FS the user is using supports it
18:04:08  <isaacs>tjfontaine: yeah, apparently my mac doesn't.
18:04:21  <tjfontaine>HFS for sure is lame
18:04:32  <isaacs>it's Mac OS Extended (Journaled)
18:05:09  <tjfontaine>While libuv supports reporting subsecond stat resolution across
18:05:09  <tjfontaine>platforms, to actually get that resolution your platform and filesystem
18:05:10  <tjfontaine>must support it (not HFS, ext[23], fat), otherwise the nsecs are 0
18:05:13  <tjfontaine>to quote the commit :)
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18:06:39  <isaacs>right
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18:07:38  <isaacs>i just put a little hack in lockfile so that if !(ctime % 1000) then i assume i don't have subsecond prec, and round-up the staleness setting
18:07:53  <tjfontaine>reasonable
18:08:21  <tjfontaine>windows buid slave loves to crash on the weekends
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20:49:12  <indutny>isaacs: so, writev, no?
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23:28:33  <MI6>nodejs-master: #179 UNSTABLE smartos-x64 (4/584) windows-ia32 (144/584) smartos-ia32 (1/584) windows-x64 (144/584) http://jenkins.nodejs.org/job/nodejs-master/179/
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