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00:38:01  <indutny>bnoordhuis: hey man
00:38:21  <bnoordhuis>indutny: ho man
00:38:24  <indutny>bnoordhuis: please review it once you'll have time https://github.com/joyent/node/pull/4344
00:38:34  <bnoordhuis>will do but now now, i'm off duty
00:38:39  <indutny>ah ok :)(
00:40:20  <indutny>ttyl
00:40:23  <indutny>off too
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02:05:31  <MI6>joyent/node: Ben Noordhuis v0.8 * e5649d4 : tools: fix platform detection on freebsd, sunos This is a back-port of u (+1 more commits) - http://git.io/A2OnOg
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19:42:07  <piscisaureus_>ircretary: notes
19:42:19  <piscisaureus_>felixge: do we say goodbye now?
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19:43:53  <indutny>haha
19:43:55  <indutny>piscisaureus_: hi
19:44:04  <piscisaureus_>indutny: hey fedor
19:44:14  <indutny>piscisaureus_: wanna review my crypto refactor?
19:44:18  <piscisaureus_>indutny: no
19:44:21  <piscisaureus_>indutny: :-)
19:44:23  <indutny>hehe
19:44:31  <indutny>well, who wants
19:44:41  <piscisaureus_>indutny: I just got home from paris. I need to get groceries, eat and sleep :-)
19:44:45  <indutny>aa
19:44:48  <indutny>groceries
19:44:52  <piscisaureus_>indutny: I will do it tomorrow tho
19:44:53  <indutny>that reminds me about food
19:45:10  <piscisaureus_>indutny: haha
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19:46:59  <piscisaureus_>indutny: I imagine that you have a http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/68416_570165749667536_1979127388_n.png situation at home
19:47:13  <indutny>I saw it
19:47:16  <indutny>and it looks so
19:47:18  <indutny>bertish
19:47:20  <indutny>:)
19:47:40  <piscisaureus_>manjana manjana
19:47:43  <piscisaureus_>(re crypto refactor)
19:47:48  * piscisaureus_away
19:47:54  <indutny>haha
19:47:56  <indutny>see ya
19:47:58  <indutny>tomorrow
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20:17:20  <isaacs>felixge: what? you're going to go?
20:17:49  <indutny>haha
20:17:54  <indutny>high resonance tweet
20:18:00  <felixge>isaacs: yeah
20:18:12  <indutny>actually, go is pretty good
20:18:20  <isaacs>yeah, go is pretty nice
20:18:23  <indutny>though, I can't agree that it's totally better than anything else
20:18:24  <felixge>I'll still use node for some stuff
20:18:27  <isaacs>felixge: but you don't have to leave node :)
20:18:37  <indutny>and this too ^
20:18:44  <isaacs>felixge: you could still have everlasting fame for writing a high performance http parser in javascrit
20:18:51  <felixge>but it's just so hard to write correct programs in node
20:19:05  <felixge>isaacs: : )
20:19:24  <felixge>isaacs: did you see go's http parser?
20:19:31  <isaacs>felixge: no, i haven't taken a look at it
20:19:39  <felixge>it's amazingly beautiful
20:19:46  <felixge>like almost everything in the go core
20:19:52  <felixge>lots of small methods
20:19:55  <felixge>doing one thing at a time
20:20:01  <felixge>composing beautiful interfaces
20:20:13  <indutny>ok
20:20:18  <felixge>but most importantly: you can write code as if it was sync
20:20:19  <indutny>lets all move to go
20:20:25  <indutny>ahha
20:20:29  <indutny>CPS
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20:20:43  <indutny>well, not exactly
20:20:44  <felixge>in node everything is inversed
20:20:53  <isaacs>i'm not convinced that "write code as if it was sync" is always best.
20:20:55  <indutny>felixge: does it using it's own scheduler like erlang?
20:20:55  <felixge>when I write a parser, data is pushed to me
20:21:03  <felixge>in go I pull the data from the underlaying stream
20:21:11  <isaacs>felixge: that's how streams2 works, you know
20:21:12  <felixge>indutny: yeah, it's essentially it's own operating system
20:21:18  <indutny>yeah
20:21:26  <indutny>I can't say that I'm really ok with it
20:21:27  <felixge>indutny: where each thread does the event loop stuff that node.js does
20:21:29  <indutny>but it works
20:21:38  <isaacs>felixge: node is moving towards a stream.read() -> {Buffer|null} model
20:21:49  <felixge>indutny: well, the people who did it have a good track record doing operating systems :)
20:22:06  <indutny>:)
20:22:10  <isaacs>felixge: i dunno about "good" track record. they have "any" track record doing operating systems.
20:22:13  <indutny>I'm not saying it's bad
20:22:15  <isaacs>felixge: which is more than most people
20:22:19  <felixge>isaacs: yeah, but I still have to deal with the case where no data is available yet
20:22:38  <isaacs>felixge: right, so we expose the 'readable' event that you have to listen for
20:22:48  <isaacs>felixge: rather than just having read() yield until readable emits
20:23:10  <felixge>isaacs: they developed unix
20:23:24  <isaacs>felixge: right, like i said, "a" track record. not sure if it's a good one :)
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20:23:27  <felixge>:)
20:23:38  <isaacs>being the best doesnt' mean it's good
20:24:24  <felixge>isaacs: well, I'll give you a few more things I like about go:
20:24:34  <felixge>a) The type system is beautiful and minimal
20:25:01  <felixge>b) Their concept of interfaces is brilliant (essentially it's duck typing, but in a static/strong way)
20:25:11  <felixge>c) Documentation is built into the language
20:25:16  <felixge>d) Testing is built into the langueg
20:25:22  <felixge>e) Benchmarking is built into the language
20:25:34  <felixge>f) Coding style is built into the language
20:25:37  <isaacs>yeah, i can see why it would appeal to you. it rewards discipline
20:25:44  <felixge>yes
20:25:54  <felixge>that summarizes it fairly well
20:26:04  <indutny>quite a good promotion
20:26:07  <indutny>:)
20:26:10  <felixge>if I put in the same effort as I do in my #nodejs libs, I feel like I end up with more correct systems
20:26:18  <isaacs>and you are pretty much the most disciplined programmer i've ever met.
20:26:43  <felixge>I still like node.js for a lot of reasons
20:26:44  <isaacs>(compliment ^)
20:27:03  <felixge>callbacks are still a much simpler concept than goroutines, channels and threads
20:27:44  <felixge>but … in go each of my http requests is run in it's own go-routine, so I can choose to ignore concurrency entirely on a per-request level if I want to
20:27:54  <felixge>and if later on I decide that was a mistake, I can fairly easily add it
20:27:59  <felixge>without any consequences to my programs flow
20:28:06  <felixge>and that is the big one for me
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20:29:22  <indutny>actually
20:29:30  <indutny>I really want to try go in my next project
20:29:36  <indutny>but I need it to run javascript on both ends
20:29:41  <felixge>isaacs: thanks, you are the most dedicated programmer I ever met. You've continued to maintain #npm and now #nodejs for all this time with what must have taken insane amounts of work
20:29:43  <indutny>but
20:29:46  <indutny>yeah
20:29:57  <felixge>indutny: that's still a perfect use case for node
20:30:02  <indutny>indeed
20:30:08  <felixge>unless you're fine with just an embedded #v8 on one end
20:30:14  <indutny>no
20:30:18  <indutny>I'm not really fine with it
20:30:33  <indutny>I want more control with less pain
20:30:48  <indutny>but...
20:30:49  <indutny>actually
20:30:52  <indutny>probably you're right
20:31:03  <isaacs>felixge: actually, if you leave node, I think i'm the oldest active noder, now that ryan has left.
20:31:05  <indutny>at least I can give it a try before telling that Go is a crap :D
20:31:21  <indutny>isaacs: into which version have you first contributed? :)
20:31:45  <indutny>I think this is my oldest commit 49888a01c34e9af51834e078ff7a8c7680f6b99a
20:31:56  <isaacs>first commit looks like * 45f5402 isaacs Pass the Host header in http.cat calls, if it was specified in the URL passed to http.cat. (3 years, 2 months ago)
20:32:40  <isaacs>indutny: but i started using node at 0.0.6
20:33:01  <indutny>oh shit :)
20:33:09  <indutny>you shoud grow a beard
20:33:12  <indutny>should*
20:33:12  <isaacs>hahah
20:35:04  <indutny>which reminds me about http://foohack.com/
20:35:06  <indutny>hehe
20:35:08  <isaacs>oh, i guess RayMorgan is still using node, probably
20:35:09  <indutny>it's still alive
20:35:13  <isaacs>indutny: oh, yeah
20:35:17  <isaacs>i haven't updated that site in forever.
20:35:23  <indutny>indeed
20:35:27  <indutny>ok
20:35:28  <indutny>tea time
20:35:57  <isaacs>indutny: oh, yeah, RayMorgan still uses node, I guess. hasn't been actively contributing much at all in recent months, though
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21:05:21  <isaacs>indutny: this crypto refactor should be done after streams2 lands.
21:05:34  <isaacs>indutny: it's a LOT of conflicts otherwise.
21:06:57  <indutny>isaacs: you think so?
21:07:03  <indutny>isaacs: I've seen your branch
21:07:19  <isaacs>indutny: i think so, yes. i moved all the buffer encoding stuff to js
21:07:24  <isaacs>indutny: so that rips out a lot of the c++
21:07:38  <indutny>oh shit
21:07:51  <indutny>I should rebase my stuff over your branch
21:08:01  <isaacs>yeah, i'm running make test now
21:08:09  <isaacs>the streams2-net stuff is taking a while
21:08:22  <indutny>may be it's time to land it? :)
21:08:29  <indutny>so
21:08:29  <isaacs>i think it'd be good to land with just crypto,zlib,fs on streams2, and leave net/http for 0.9.67
21:08:35  <indutny>yeah
21:08:39  <indutny>for now
21:08:45  <indutny>should I rebase over streams2?
21:08:46  <isaacs>net is working fine, but it breaks http a lot
21:09:10  <isaacs>yeah, that'd be good
21:09:22  <isaacs>streams2 passes all tests
21:09:28  <indutny>actually
21:09:33  <indutny>it has rebased w/o any conflicts
21:09:37  <isaacs>oh!! nice :)
21:09:40  <isaacs>maybe i'm too paranoid :)
21:09:45  <indutny>:)
21:09:53  <indutny>so I'll keep my branch as it is then
21:09:55  <isaacs>hmm....
21:10:11  <indutny>joyent/streams2, correct?
21:10:27  <indutny>https://github.com/joyent/node/compare/master...streams2
21:10:32  <indutny>I can't see node_crypto here at all
21:10:38  <indutny>only crypto.js changes
21:11:56  <indutny>isaacs: agreed?
21:12:06  <isaacs>ohh... wtf..
21:12:13  <isaacs>shit, maybe that was in some other branch?
21:12:21  <indutny>probably
21:12:35  <mmalecki>isaacs: streams2-net I think
21:12:43  <isaacs>oh, hahah
21:12:46  <isaacs>indutny: it's in crypto-buffers
21:12:50  <indutny>oooh
21:12:51  <indutny>shit
21:12:55  <indutny>ok
21:12:57  <indutny>lets see it :)
21:13:36  <isaacs>oh, and that landed in master, it looks like...
21:13:48  <indutny>seems like so
21:13:58  <indutny>so
21:14:03  <indutny>nothing to worry about, right? :)
21:14:12  <indutny>actually, all tests are passing with my crypto stuff
21:14:13  <isaacs>hahah, indeed :)
21:14:15  <isaacs>oh, great!
21:14:21  <isaacs>but we shoudl still land streams2
21:14:22  <indutny>it's mostly moving code around
21:14:24  <indutny>and fixing style
21:14:25  <isaacs>right
21:14:44  <isaacs>yeah, that's what was worrying to me, because if we hadn't landed crypto-buffers, then "moving code around and fixing style" would cause a lot of conflicts.
21:15:02  <indutny>:)
21:15:02  <isaacs>that's basically the worst conflict-causing thing you can do, eventhough it's easy for humans, it's hard for git
21:15:05  <indutny>indeed
21:15:11  <indutny>no
21:15:16  <indutny>it's hard for humans too
21:15:25  <indutny>really hard
21:15:32  <indutny>it's simple if you've moved one function
21:15:37  <indutny>but if you have moved 40
21:15:46  <indutny>and have some changes to them in another branch
21:15:50  <indutny>it may become a hell
21:16:30  <indutny>ok
21:16:31  <indutny>I need to sleep
21:16:33  <indutny>ttyl, tomrrow
21:17:15  <indutny>I'm off
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21:25:23  <xaka>that is really interesting to listen to you guys and weird at the same time - i mean it's libuv channel and every day you dicsuss node.js stuff only :)
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22:36:18  <isaacs>xaka: node.js is libuv's most relevant incarnation
22:36:29  <isaacs>xaka: and all the libuv core devs are also node core devs
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22:53:52  <isaacs>I think this full-on http refactor is going to have to wait until 0.12
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22:54:20  <isaacs>maybe i'll just make IncomingMessage into a stream.Readable and OutgoingMessage into a stream.Writable
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23:45:18  <mjr_>I hope we can get on node 0.8 before 0.10 comes out.
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