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00:29:44  <TooTallNate>what do you guys think about adding os.endianness() to core?
00:29:52  <TooTallNate>returns 'LE' or 'BE'
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00:34:18  <mmalecki>TooTallNate: I'm curious what's the usecase
00:35:09  <TooTallNate>mmalecki: well i needed to write out an Array of ints in native endianness. this is easily solved by TypedArrays, but i figure there's other use cases out there
00:35:25  <mmalecki>I see
00:35:40  <mmalecki>well, I'm +1 to adding every system information to the core
00:40:47  <bnoordhuis>TooTallNate: meh. maybe if a lot of people ask for it
00:42:00  <bnoordhuis>TooTallNate: you don't reall need it anyway, you can find out the endianness by overlaying e.g. an uint16array and a uint8array. write two bytes to the latter and read from the former, presto
00:42:34  <TooTallNate>hahaha, clever
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00:56:10  <TooTallNate>bnoordhuis: the benefit there is it works in the browser :D
00:56:25  <TooTallNate>though i don't know why you'd need that info in the browser
00:57:41  <bnoordhuis>TooTallNate: so why do you need that info in node? :)
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00:58:16  <TooTallNate>bnoordhuis: haha, writing a typed array (i know what comes next :p )
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01:02:13  * isaacshas no objection to adding os.endianness()
01:02:22  <isaacs>except for the perrennial objection of "it's another thing"
01:02:32  <isaacs>if we don't need it, meh
01:02:47  <isaacs>otoh, "overlaying e.g. an uint16array and a uint8array. write two bytes to the latter and read from the former, presto
01:02:58  <isaacs>is not exactly obvious or a nice api :)
01:03:59  <TooTallNate>isaacs: i'm exporting it in my "ref" module, cause it exports types that need to be machine-endianness
01:04:00  <TooTallNate>https://github.com/TooTallNate/ref/blob/master/src/binding.cc#L89-99
01:04:15  <TooTallNate>cause of node-ffi in the end…
01:04:31  <isaacs>hm. that makes sense.
01:04:48  <isaacs>an os.endianness() method would be a bit nicer, then, I guess i can see that.
01:08:31  <isaacs>awesome. i think i got tcp streams behaving properly
01:08:40  <isaacs><3 node's tests
01:09:06  <isaacs>they're ruthless aweful ornery bastards sometimes, and generally pretty badly written, but they sure do cover all kinds of edge cases.
01:10:26  <AvianFlu>that's what's good about having 100+ people write your tests :D
01:10:42  <AvianFlu>one person writes them all, you've only got one point of view and one set of use cases reflected
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01:30:23  <MI6>joyent/node: isaacs streams2-net * 9767f18 : test: Trigger old-mode in tests, and more output (+6 more commits) - http://git.io/CVo8ag
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01:40:50  <isaacs>hmmm... so, i think we actually need both a lowWaterMark and a highWaterMark for readables.
01:41:03  <isaacs>lowWaterMark = must have X bytes buffered to emit('readable')
01:41:18  <isaacs>highWaterMark = do not call _read(n,cb) when this many are buffered.
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01:43:46  <MI6>joyent/node: isaacs streams2-net * a6baf2f : stream2: Always _read() when the lwm=0 - http://git.io/Wx3gYQ
01:44:19  <TooTallNate>isaacs: makes sense to me
01:44:25  <isaacs>ok, gotta run
01:44:29  <isaacs>taco tiem!
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13:24:43  <txdv>whos coding?!
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14:07:04  <indutny>piscisaureus_: hoya
14:07:11  <piscisaureus_>ola indutny
14:07:19  <indutny>piscisaureus_: what are we working on?
14:07:29  <piscisaureus_>indutny: right now? or in general
14:07:36  <indutny>I really feel like I've missed a lot of things on node.js in recent weeks
14:07:40  <indutny>well
14:07:45  <piscisaureus_>mostly runjs still. Right now I am reviewing isaacs' streams2 branch
14:07:52  <piscisaureus_>otherwise he will fire me when we have the call
14:07:59  <indutny>haha
14:08:00  <indutny>ok
14:08:06  <indutny>so we were mostly doing nothing
14:08:08  <indutny>except isaacs
14:08:14  <piscisaureus_>yes
14:08:15  <indutny>he was working on streams2, right?
14:08:16  <piscisaureus_>I think so
14:08:16  <indutny>ok
14:08:19  <piscisaureus_>yeah he was
14:08:23  <piscisaureus_>was ben also doing nothing?
14:08:24  <piscisaureus_>that'd be sad
14:08:42  <indutny>idk
14:09:10  <indutny>I worked a lot on candor in my free time
14:09:13  <indutny>it was so exciting
14:09:14  <piscisaureus_>ircretary: tell bnoordhuis what are you doing man
14:09:14  <ircretary>piscisaureus_: I'll be sure to tell bnoordhuis
14:09:19  <indutny>haha
14:09:31  <indutny>and now I feel like I need to fix something in node
14:09:32  <indutny>or libuv
14:09:36  <piscisaureus_>HIHI
14:09:37  <piscisaureus_>ok
14:09:41  <piscisaureus_>well, there's work to do
14:09:43  <indutny>HIHI?
14:10:10  <piscisaureus_>indutny: what sort of thing would you want to do?
14:10:22  <piscisaureus_>indutny: if you want to make your employer happy, add pty support to libuv :-p
14:10:28  <indutny>haha
14:10:30  <indutny>well
14:10:35  <piscisaureus_>ok, not that
14:10:36  <indutny>for unixes only?
14:10:38  <indutny>:)
14:10:38  <piscisaureus_>yes
14:10:39  <piscisaureus_>fine
14:10:47  <piscisaureus_>windows users don't expect to use a pty
14:10:47  <indutny>well, I could try that then
14:10:57  <piscisaureus_>I think you should just piggyback on uv_pipe
14:11:02  <piscisaureus_>*uv_pipe_t
14:11:15  <indutny>ok
14:11:21  <piscisaureus_>I mean it has different modes already (IPC and non-ipc) so you could easily add another mode (PTY)
14:11:27  <indutny>I understand
14:11:34  <piscisaureus_>but... only if you want to
14:11:41  <piscisaureus_>maybe you have more fun things to do
14:11:55  <indutny>well, implementing IC was really funny
14:11:59  <indutny>if you're talking about this :)
14:12:08  <piscisaureus_>s/funny/fun/
14:12:18  <piscisaureus_>it sounds hard to do that
14:12:25  <indutny>funny*
14:12:26  <piscisaureus_>I wonder how you pulled it off so quickly
14:12:30  <indutny>well
14:12:34  <indutny>I've simplified it
14:12:37  <indutny>only monomorphic
14:12:40  <piscisaureus_>aah
14:12:49  <indutny>and not allowing adding new properties
14:12:57  <piscisaureus_>so if you have a cache miss, you switch the type?
14:13:06  <piscisaureus_>or you switch to "megamorphic" immediately?
14:13:13  <indutny>sort of
14:13:18  <indutny>it's IC for property loads/stores
14:13:28  <indutny>so I'm just culling runtime in case of cache miss
14:13:30  <indutny>and updating cache
14:13:44  <piscisaureus_>ok so you are always updating the cache
14:13:47  <indutny>yes
14:13:55  <indutny>well
14:14:00  <indutny>not always
14:14:06  <indutny>if there comes object with unclear prototype
14:14:09  <piscisaureus_>that could be bad in theory - because you might end up updating the cache very often if you have a polymorphic site
14:14:10  <indutny>I'm disabling cache
14:14:13  <piscisaureus_>ah
14:14:46  <indutny>yeah
14:14:55  <piscisaureus_>indutny: you want to take a look inside v8 internals?
14:15:02  <indutny>I already looked into
14:15:09  <indutny>hidden classes and etc
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14:16:28  <indutny>piscisaureus_: so I'm optimizing access to object clones
14:16:51  <indutny>piscisaureus_: and if code will try to work with not-clone - it'll suck
14:20:20  <piscisaureus_>indutny: No I meant debugging https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/4231 :-)
14:20:29  <indutny>aaah
14:21:03  <indutny>why not post issue on v8's tracker?
14:21:09  <indutny>you want to fix it yourself?
14:21:31  <indutny>piscisaureus_: ^
14:21:45  <piscisaureus_>oh
14:21:50  <piscisaureus_>I forgot I think
14:21:58  <piscisaureus_>at some point I was doing that
14:22:14  <indutny>he
14:22:15  <indutny>heh
14:22:19  <indutny>looks like a phi problem
14:22:27  <indutny>it isn't happening without loop, right?
14:24:35  <indutny>piscisaureus_: ok, I'm back to c9 stuff
14:24:40  <indutny>piscisaureus_: will look into it later
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15:43:35  <isaacs>good morning
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15:46:39  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: always converting strings to buffers in js -> not very good performance-wise
15:47:18  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: yeah, that's why net streams don't do that
15:47:41  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: oh - right. But your net changes havent landed yet ?
15:47:41  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: you can set a flag to have _write get a [string,encoding] instead
15:47:56  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: it's in streams2-net, which is pretty gross atm
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15:48:09  <piscisaureus_>Ah, I see. I was just looking at streams2
15:48:13  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: for zlib, we were doing that anyway
15:48:18  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: and for crypto, well, it's got other problems.
15:48:32  <indutny>morning
15:48:33  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: we were planning to add the same optimization to crypto tho
15:48:38  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: sure.
15:48:47  <isaacs>and it's not hard to do in the context of streams2
15:48:56  <isaacs>it's just a matter of setting a flag
15:49:09  <isaacs>this._writableState.decodeStrings=false
15:49:14  <isaacs>in the ctor
15:58:01  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: the low/high water marks are nice tho
15:58:10  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: yeah.
15:58:18  <isaacs>i need to change how they work for readables, though
15:58:18  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: could make fs streams more efficient at least (esp. when piping)
15:58:35  <isaacs>we sort of had that implemnetation for fs streams already
15:58:45  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: in the net branch you should probably check against the number of bytes pending that libuv reports
15:58:48  <isaacs>it just wasn't configurable, or easy to read thoruhg
15:58:55  <piscisaureus_>did wel?
15:59:16  * piscisaureus_didn't know
15:59:21  <isaacs>well, we read in chunks, and alwyas tried to keep a min amount in the buffer
15:59:33  <piscisaureus_>ah, yeah, I meant for writable streams
15:59:43  <isaacs>oh, right
15:59:50  <piscisaureus_>writable streams used to be not so efficient because write() would always return false
15:59:51  <isaacs>yeah, there we just had a queue of things to do
15:59:54  <isaacs>right
15:59:59  <isaacs>yeah,t hat sucked
16:00:06  <isaacs>lots of unnecessary pausing of whatever you were piping into a file
16:00:11  <piscisaureus_>so if you were piping then it would pause and resume the incoming stream yeah, that
16:00:49  <isaacs>pretty much every userland fs-streamy-thing changes that behavior.
16:02:19  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: I think for readable streams it is important to not confuse chunk size with the low water mark
16:02:41  <piscisaureus_>the low water mark only makes sense on "slow" streams, like tcp streams
16:03:00  <piscisaureus_>it can be more efficient to only emit readable when there are atleast x bytes pending
16:03:39  <piscisaureus_>but the caveat is that if you have a duplex communication protocol, you may have to respond to a "request" that is smaller than the low water mark
16:03:43  <indutny>isaacs: call?
16:03:50  <indutny>or in 1h?
16:03:52  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: so it should default to 1, and be user-configurable
16:03:58  <isaacs>1h
16:04:02  <piscisaureus_>oh
16:04:13  <piscisaureus_>did you guys change time zones now?
16:04:22  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: yeah, blame america
16:04:28  <piscisaureus_>I blame obama
16:04:31  <isaacs>summer time ended
16:04:41  <indutny>piscisaureus_: well, we ain't changing them anymore
16:04:42  <isaacs>it's at 17:00 now
16:04:47  <indutny>piscisaureus_: blame Putin
16:04:54  <piscisaureus_>indutny: +1 for putin then
16:05:01  <indutny>piscisaureus_: not really
16:05:05  <indutny>piscisaureus_: we stuck in winter TZ
16:05:17  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: meh. it' sjust a number
16:05:18  <indutny>I hoped for us to stay in summer time
16:05:19  <piscisaureus_>well you're stuck in winter so you better stick to winter tz as well :-)
16:05:21  <isaacs>er, indutny
16:05:26  <indutny>piscisaureus_: haha
16:05:37  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: yeah, so, for tcp streams, any duplex really, the lwm has to be 0
16:05:47  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: but i also need a hwm for readables to say when to STOP reading
16:05:48  <piscisaureus_>well 1/0 whatever
16:06:00  <piscisaureus_>I would say you should not emit "readable" when there's 0 bytes to read :-)
16:06:08  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: right
16:06:08  <indutny>bnoordhuis:
16:06:17  <bnoordhuis>indutny: ?
16:06:21  <indutny>bnoordhuis: can you please remind me what should I write instead of uv_wait()?
16:06:28  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: but yes 0 should work, it would basically mean "no low water mark"
16:06:34  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: yeah
16:06:41  <bnoordhuis>indutny: you mean what to work on?
16:06:52  <indutny>bnoordhuis: no, I mean I would like to get uv_wait() in
16:06:54  <isaacs>but then you still need a high water mark, so that you can still keep trying to read the stream, so you see the EOF if it comes.
16:06:54  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: there is not much sense in having a high water mark for readable stream.
16:06:58  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: ^
16:06:59  <indutny>bnoordhuis: :)
16:07:30  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: so, right now, i'm confusing lwm to mean "when do i bother to emit('readable')" and also "when should i keep calling _read()"
16:07:38  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: the first is a lwm. the second is more properly a high water mark.
16:07:48  <bnoordhuis>indutny: oh, like that. uhm, as you know i'm not a big fan of the extra complexity
16:07:56  <indutny>I know
16:08:02  <indutny>well
16:08:06  <indutny>lets expose fd then
16:08:12  <bnoordhuis>i would prefer to give the user the epoll/kqueue fd and the next timeout and call it a day
16:08:15  <bnoordhuis>exactly :)
16:08:17  <indutny>yes
16:08:20  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: I think that if you hit an EOF you should just ignore any high/low marks
16:08:24  <indutny>at least it's anything
16:08:30  <bnoordhuis>or something
16:08:32  <indutny>and if something won't work - that is user's problems
16:08:36  <indutny>:)
16:08:56  <bnoordhuis>yes, the user is free to move the polling to a thread
16:09:04  <bnoordhuis>we don't have to make that choice for him/her/it
16:09:24  <bnoordhuis>btw, at what time is the call this week?
16:09:31  <bnoordhuis>all this dst stuff is confusing me no end
16:09:50  <indutny>1h
16:09:52  <indutny>from now
16:13:06  <sgallagh>bnoordhuis: Do you happen to know which upstream version of libev that your fork matches to?
16:14:10  <bnoordhuis>sgallagh: you mean what release? frankly, no :)
16:14:23  <bnoordhuis>it's at least over a year old though
16:15:13  <sgallagh>bnoordhuis: Found it in the sources: looks like 4.04
16:15:45  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: but that's the point, you won't even see the EOF if you dont _read()
16:16:21  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: let's say, you _read() and get a chunk, but dont read() to consume it
16:16:28  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: and meanwhile, i .end()
16:16:40  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: there's an EOF sitting there waiting to be consumed, but you're not going to see it
16:17:12  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: because you've called readStop() and aren't going to call readStart() again until you consume the bytes sitting in the buffer to trigger another _read(n,cb) call
16:17:35  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: so, _read() should get called in teh background until the highWaterMark is hit
16:18:18  <isaacs>also, let's just say that our call is at 17:00 forever. 8:00 am is too early for CA, but we can shift it to 10:00 when we go back on summer time.
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16:28:36  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: ew 17.00 I think youre mixing stuff up
16:28:55  <isaacs>huh?
16:29:21  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: too late?
16:29:51  <piscisaureus_>isaacs well if we are both back in summer time, 10.00am == 19.00pm for us
16:29:53  <piscisaureus_>just like now
16:30:05  <isaacs>ohh, ok.
16:30:11  <isaacs>stupid spherical planet...
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16:30:23  <isaacs>16:00 is actually fine for me.
16:30:37  <isaacs>i'd just prefer to stick with UTC and the sun, rather than this provincial "us/pacific" thing
16:30:48  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: 16.00 for us is 7am for you :-)
16:31:04  <isaacs>1600 is 8:00 for me right now
16:31:10  <isaacs>it's 16:32 right now
16:31:23  <isaacs>16:00 is 9AM when we're on summer time.
16:31:31  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: you are referring to UTC times
16:31:33  <piscisaureus_>?
16:31:34  <isaacs>yes.
16:31:38  <isaacs>16:00 UTC
16:31:39  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: here it is 17:30
16:31:43  <isaacs>right.
16:31:45  <isaacs>you're +1
16:31:54  <isaacs>i'm -8 or -7, depending on teh season
16:32:07  <piscisaureus_>here we are +1 or +2 depending on teh season
16:32:10  <isaacs>i thought you guys were +1/+0, but you're saying it's 1/2
16:32:10  <isaacs>right
16:32:33  <isaacs>k. would 16:00Z work for you guys year-round?
16:32:45  <isaacs>i don't know if scott and nate will object to getting up early.
16:32:46  <piscisaureus_>yes
16:32:56  <piscisaureus_>for me it would
16:32:57  <isaacs>we might just have to deal with provincial bs.
16:34:19  <isaacs>seriously, i think time zones will eventually be seen as one of hte greatest tragedies of human civilization.
16:34:24  <isaacs>in the fullness of history.
16:35:25  <piscisaureus_>Yes. Forget about world wars and concentration camps.
16:35:29  <piscisaureus_>Time zones, that was it.
16:36:05  <isaacs>all those thigns were symptoms.
16:36:12  <isaacs>of the deeper disease.
16:36:35  <isaacs>how can we have an experience of universal brotherhood when we don't even know what time it is there?
16:37:08  <piscisaureus_>also, everybody should learn dutch
16:37:51  <piscisaureus_>I think that if everybody would be white and male then we'd also feel much more connected
16:39:23  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: why learn dutch? the dutch all speak english already.
16:39:54  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: well if everybody would learn english that 1 third of the world population would have an artifical advantage
16:39:58  <piscisaureus_>not so much with dutch
16:40:07  <piscisaureus_>even dutch people don't speak dutch properly
16:40:29  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: that's what they said about esperanto and lojban
16:40:43  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: but of course, esperanto is WAY easier for europeans and americans to leanr.
16:40:53  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: nad lojban is just kind of stupid.
16:42:48  <CoverSlide>everyone should learn dothraki
16:43:01  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: irl, economic factors always drive cultural changes, and the people with the money always have the advantage. once upon a time, that was latin, now it's english in the west and mandarin in the east, and eventually may be some kind of hybrid simplified english-ish language.
16:43:28  <isaacs>polyglot systems attract the worst kind of language nerds. you see this in java, and in europe.
16:43:31  <isaacs>;P
16:43:36  <CoverSlide>well according to Firefly, Mandarin will become the dominant language in the future
16:43:43  <isaacs>CoverSlide: only for cursing, though
16:43:47  <tjfontaine>the world according to whedon
16:43:48  <CoverSlide>true
16:44:07  <isaacs>and really, as Futurama teaches us, Cantonese is WAY better for cursing.
16:44:18  <isaacs>Hailat! Dasane!
16:44:25  <isaacs>literally: "CRITICAL SITUATION! HIT YOU TO DEATH!"
16:44:44  <isaacs>kinda makes "shit" and "fuck" look tame
16:45:44  <CoverSlide>http://wiki.dothraki.org/dothraki/Learningdothraki
16:46:20  <CoverSlide>isaacs: looks like something you'd see at the end of an arcade fighting game
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16:57:14  <bnoordhuis>call in 3?
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16:58:40  <bnoordhuis>isaacs: 1600 UTC works for me as well
16:59:42  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: bertje, maak es an
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17:16:04  <rendar>isaacs: lol, futurama rocks :)
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17:29:46  <indutny>piscisaureus_: I've tried looking at https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/4231#issuecomment-10037956
17:29:52  <indutny>piscisaureus_: but v8's hydrogen is so obscure
17:29:58  <piscisaureus_>heh
17:30:12  <indutny>even c1visualizer doesn't help me to get it
17:30:16  <piscisaureus_>i had the same fedor
17:30:31  <indutny>candor's HIR is much simplier to understand
17:30:32  <indutny>:)
17:30:36  <MI6>joyent/libuv: Ben Noordhuis master * 43d52c7 : test: make `make test` link against .so (+1 more commits) - http://git.io/VXSKzw
17:30:40  <bnoordhuis>sgallagh: ^
17:30:43  <piscisaureus_>also much slower :-p
17:31:22  <indutny>not on every example :)
17:31:42  <indutny>well, yes, it's slower
17:31:46  <indutny>one day you'll work on it
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17:31:51  <indutny>when you'll be fired
17:32:27  <bnoordhuis>indutny: you can't really fire someone you don't pay
17:32:44  <indutny>bnoordhuis: the best quote :)
17:33:09  <bnoordhuis>bert just showed up one day and couldn't be made to leave again
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17:38:10  <sblom>indutny: here's what I know about the failure in simple/test-debugger-client.js
17:38:43  <sblom>indutny: it hangs in the third test case (eval("2+2")) 100% of the time on my Windows machine, and about 20% of the time on my Macbook.
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17:39:03  <travis-ci>[travis-ci] joyent/libuv#856 (master - 43d52c7 : Ben Noordhuis): The build passed.
17:39:03  <travis-ci>[travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/joyent/libuv/compare/d56434a21d9e...43d52c77baa4
17:39:03  <travis-ci>[travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/joyent/libuv/builds/3115409
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17:39:31  <sblom>indutny: from doing some stepping in the debugger, it appears that the eval request is being made to v8, but for some reason it's vanishing. (Looking up a line number where you can see this in action.)
17:41:51  * bnoordhuisis off to dinner
17:42:19  <MI6>joyent/node: isaacs streams2-net * 4ef328e : test: update test-child-process-fork-net2 to work properly It was only e - http://git.io/YdORJA
17:42:24  <sblom>indutny: isaacs mentioned to me (you may already know this) that there's some kind of historical wrestling match with a debugger initialization race condition that you can see as a fixme on line 100 in node.js
17:42:51  <sblom>(line 100 in joyent/node#master)
17:46:00  <sgallagh>bnoordhuis: Thanks for the pointer
17:46:48  <sblom>indutny: I'm pretty sure the line where my debug stepping lost the scent of the trail was line 206 in deps/v8/src/execution.cc (result = Invoke())
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17:47:14  <sblom>indutny: it's possible that's because of the initialization race that isaacs's reference indicates, but it felt slightly different from that to me.
17:47:35  <sblom>But I admit I'm a long way from having a good handle on debugging inside JITted v8 code.
17:47:56  <sblom>So it's possible v8 just confused me.
17:48:22  <indutny>kewl
17:48:29  <indutny>I'm having a dinner atm
17:48:36  <indutny>will look into it 10-20 minutes
17:48:37  <indutny>later
17:48:41  <indutny>sblom: thank you for sharing
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18:31:06  <indutny>bnoordhuis: so about select() in osx
18:31:08  <indutny>bnoordhuis: yt
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19:09:08  <bnoordhuis>indutny: ih
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19:10:22  <indutny>bnoordhuis: ok
19:10:33  <indutny>bnoordhuis: we still need it
19:10:43  <bnoordhuis>indutny: who is 'we'?
19:10:52  <indutny>bnoordhuis: osx people
19:11:06  <indutny>bnoordhuis: opening "/dev/tty" brokes everything
19:11:18  <bnoordhuis>yes, i know
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19:14:33  <bnoordhuis>indutny: okay, so let's hear your proposal :)
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19:14:41  <indutny>bnoordhuis: so, I've two idea
19:14:43  <indutny>ideas*
19:15:06  <indutny>1) Creating extra fd and feeding it to select() call
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19:15:21  <indutny>writing to it every time readable/writable state should be changed
19:15:33  <bnoordhuis>indutny: you mean an event fd kind of fd?
19:15:34  <bnoordhuis>right
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19:16:00  <indutny>2) Assume that state can't be changed after select() thread was started
19:16:12  <indutny>i.e. start is as late as possible
19:16:14  <indutny>or
19:16:29  <indutny>3) start thread only when reading/writing notifications requested
19:16:32  <indutny>yeah, 3 ides
19:16:34  <indutny>ideas*
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19:16:54  <bnoordhuis>the first sounds reasonable, the other two not so much
19:17:02  <indutny>ok
19:17:17  <indutny>btw, do you think 300 bytes per instruction is too much? :)
19:17:27  <bnoordhuis>300 bytes per instruction of what?
19:17:28  <indutny>offtopic
19:17:30  <indutny>candor
19:17:41  <bnoordhuis>define 'instruction'?
19:17:47  <bnoordhuis>you mean assembly opcode?
19:17:53  <indutny>yes
19:18:03  <bnoordhuis>hmm, some would say it's a little excessive :)
19:18:06  <indutny>I think it's bad for cache
19:18:12  <indutny>yeah, indeed
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19:26:19  <bnoordhuis>a curious thing... if you run test/test-async under valgrind, it always times out, no matter how big the timeout is
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19:32:03  <indutny>bnoordhuis: interesting
19:32:17  <indutny>bnoordhuis: I suppose valgrind bug?
19:32:30  <bnoordhuis>indutny: or a very subtle race in the test
19:32:39  <indutny>run it with drd
19:32:52  <bnoordhuis>it's a multi-threaded test and valgrind doesn't really do threads, it just simulates them
19:32:59  <indutny>ah
19:33:01  <indutny>hm..
19:33:07  <indutny>run drd on one core VM
19:33:10  <indutny>:)
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20:01:29  <TooTallNate>piscisaureus_: so i'm not sure what 1. means http://codereview.chromium.org/11361103/
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20:02:16  <piscisaureus_>TooTallNate: neither do I :-)
20:02:28  <piscisaureus_>maybe this guy is not aware that you are not a googler
20:02:42  <piscisaureus_>I would suggest that you just ask what he means :-)
20:02:50  <TooTallNate>ok thanks
20:02:51  <indutny>TooTallNate: ask for secrets
20:02:59  <indutny>TooTallNate: ask for ssh keys
20:03:13  <indutny>TooTallNate: say you need a ssh key to look into gyp commit queue
20:03:15  <piscisaureus_>Haha
20:03:17  <piscisaureus_>You know google
20:03:20  <piscisaureus_>They don't use SSH
20:03:26  <piscisaureus_>they have something in-house :-)
20:03:39  <indutny>I'm pretty sure they have certificates for VPN
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20:21:47  <bnoordhuis>indutny, piscisaureus_: https://github.com/bnoordhuis/libuv/commit/372aee2 <- review?
20:22:25  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: how is there a deadlock?
20:22:39  <bnoordhuis>i was afraid you were going to ask that
20:22:54  <piscisaureus_>yes, because if there is, I added it :-)
20:22:58  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: so explain ?
20:23:00  <bnoordhuis>maybe livelock is a better word
20:23:23  <bnoordhuis>wait, i'll try to get a trace out of valgrind, that'll help explaining
20:23:46  <bnoordhuis>btw, sneakily enough it doesn't *always* happen, just often
20:24:18  <bnoordhuis>ah, stracing valgrind kills it. nice
20:24:51  <indutny>:)
20:24:56  <piscisaureus_>why does make nowadays no longer work :-(
20:25:03  <piscisaureus_>test/run-tests: error while loading shared libraries: libuv.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
20:25:13  <indutny>I know what's happening
20:25:20  <indutny>it checks variable after uv_async cb
20:25:24  <indutny>and it contains old value
20:25:31  <piscisaureus_>yes, so
20:25:31  <indutny>because there're no memory barriers
20:25:33  <piscisaureus_>it does it again
20:25:34  <indutny>and it loops
20:25:36  <indutny>bnoordhuis: right?
20:25:39  <txdv>hi
20:25:51  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: oh, i broke that :)
20:25:57  <piscisaureus_>yes
20:25:59  <bnoordhuis>is that on windows?
20:26:05  <piscisaureus_>how do I buuld the test runner with gyp?
20:26:08  <piscisaureus_>no linux
20:26:16  <bnoordhuis>it builds it automatically
20:26:21  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: .so file on linux ?
20:26:21  <bnoordhuis>it's in out/Debug/run-tests
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20:26:27  <txdv>is async_t thread safe?
20:26:36  <bnoordhuis>txdv: in what context?
20:26:36  <indutny>by what means?
20:27:02  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: what commands do you use to build run-tests? I can't seem to do it (master)
20:27:05  <txdv>like I call async_t for loop 1 from other loops in their own threads
20:27:10  <bnoordhuis>indutny: re no memory barriers, that's not it
20:27:17  <indutny>bnoordhuis: ah, ok
20:27:36  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: just `./gyp_uv -f ninja && ninja -C out/Debug && out/Debug/run-tests
20:27:46  <txdv>all simultaneously
20:27:56  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: the other ways of building are all broken apparently
20:28:11  <bnoordhuis>really? let me try a make build
20:28:46  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: ah the gyp make works anyway
20:28:50  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: `./gyp_uv && make -j 8 -C out BUILDTYPE=Debug` wfm
20:28:55  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: but the non-gyp make is still broken
20:29:21  <bnoordhuis>you mean `make test`? it sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH and, well, wfm :)
20:29:40  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: no I just do make && test/run-tests
20:29:52  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: but - wut, are we using dynamic linking now?
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20:30:12  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: did that ever work right? the all target doesn't rebuild run-tests
20:30:22  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: make test does
20:30:25  <piscisaureus_>er
20:30:30  <piscisaureus_>make test/run-tests
20:30:45  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: oh, you typed make *&&* test/run-tests
20:30:58  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: btw - ran the async test with valgrind 8 times now
20:31:02  <bnoordhuis>which would rebuild libuv.a but not test/run-tests
20:31:02  <piscisaureus_>no deadlick
20:31:05  <piscisaureus_>*deadlock
20:31:08  <bnoordhuis>no? 32 bits?
20:31:12  <piscisaureus_>64
20:31:15  <piscisaureus_>debug build
20:31:18  <bnoordhuis>hah, really?
20:31:26  <bnoordhuis>awesomely finicky bug, this one
20:31:49  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: also, I don't really see how the old code has a livelock honestly
20:31:56  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: so you should explain :-)
20:32:36  <bnoordhuis>hm, it may be an artefact of how valgrind emulates threads
20:33:40  <bnoordhuis>to show i'm making this up:
20:33:41  <bnoordhuis>$ time valgrind -q out/Debug/run-tests async async
20:33:41  <bnoordhuis>^CKilled
20:33:41  <bnoordhuis>real 0m20.842s
20:33:41  <bnoordhuis>user 0m20.824s
20:33:43  <bnoordhuis>sys 0m0.040s
20:34:12  <bnoordhuis>i.e. it was spinning for 20 secs before i interrupted it
20:34:20  <TooTallNate>anyone wanna review? https://github.com/TooTallNate/node/commit/add%2Fos-endianness
20:34:23  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: can you get a per-thread breakdown?
20:34:35  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: breakdown of what?
20:34:44  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: I think it is running 1 thread only
20:34:49  <piscisaureus_>otherwise it should really not happen
20:34:53  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: yeah, so that's what valgrind does
20:35:06  <piscisaureus_>crappy :-)
20:35:08  <bnoordhuis>it doesn't actually run multiple threads, it switches between them
20:35:18  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: so apparently it never actually switches
20:36:03  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: what if you add printf("%d\n", n) to both thread_cb and async_cb ?
20:36:08  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: do you actually see it increase?
20:36:39  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: that's the fun bit, if you add printf statements, the test passes
20:36:49  <piscisaureus_>I think it's a valgrind bug
20:36:55  <piscisaureus_>this should really work
20:37:05  <piscisaureus_>maybe it's not taking the "volatile" part seriously
20:38:21  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: your patch lgtm btw
20:38:29  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: but it makes the test less interesting
20:38:55  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: because it always synchronizes between the thread and the async_cb we are much less likely to catch threadsafety issues
20:41:35  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: yeah, i guess so
20:41:49  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: so what happens is that valgrind never switches away from the worker thread
20:42:06  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: maybe add a pthread_yield() ?
20:42:12  <piscisaureus_>do we have uv_yield? :-)
20:42:23  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: windows implementation would be Sleep(0) couldn't be easier
20:42:46  <piscisaureus_>or RtlBackoff if you want to look interesting
20:42:50  <piscisaureus_>(you don't)
20:43:46  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: yeah, a nanosleep({0,1}) fixes it
20:43:58  <bnoordhuis>okay, valgrind bug it is then
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20:47:12  <bnoordhuis>piscisaureus_: btw, `LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$PWD test/run-tests` lets you run the tests standalone now
20:47:29  <bnoordhuis>i'll make it compile the binary with an -rpath
20:47:46  <piscisaureus_>aha
20:47:56  * piscisaureus_stores that for later
20:48:06  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: it doesn't bother me too much - I can live with the gyp build
20:48:27  <piscisaureus_>bnoordhuis: but for the best "beginner experience" I think the makefile build should work propertly
20:48:29  <piscisaureus_>*properly
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20:57:26  <piscisaureus_>hmm
20:57:33  <piscisaureus_>the debug build of node 0.8 is totally borked
20:57:35  <piscisaureus_>wtf happened
20:58:44  <piscisaureus_>One can never leave node alone, or others will fuck it up to no end :-p
20:59:10  <tjfontaine>how is it broken?
21:01:07  <piscisaureus_>it segfaults on startup
21:05:27  <piscisaureus_>I'm making a fresh checkout
21:05:32  <piscisaureus_>there's something fishy here
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21:58:02  <piscisaureus_>Very weird
21:58:29  <piscisaureus_>apparently the x64-debug version started crashing on windows as soon as we enabled openssl asm
21:58:40  <piscisaureus_>but it crashes while running static initializers
21:58:45  <piscisaureus_>which openssl doesn't even use ...
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22:03:24  <piscisaureus_>weird enough, the master branch - when all asm bells and whistles are used - does not have this issue
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22:22:21  <piscisaureus_>fuck openssl are you kidding me
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22:23:16  <piscisaureus_>https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/v0.8/deps/openssl/asm/x64-win32-masm/x86_64cpuid.asm#L3 <-- DWORD, wut???
22:26:49  <Raynos>Would this be a bad place to ask mdb + v8.so (debugging core dumps) advice?
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22:44:23  <MI6>joyent/node: piscisaureus created branch winfix - http://git.io/0Y_b6w
22:44:25  <piscisaureus_>^-- bnoordhuis: review?
22:44:29  <piscisaureus_>or sblom?
22:47:48  <TooTallNate>piscisaureus_: do did you break it? :p
22:47:53  <TooTallNate>s/do/so
22:47:58  <piscisaureus_>TooTallNate: well.. in a way.
22:48:06  <piscisaureus_>TooTallNate: I enabled compiled asm for openssl
22:48:06  <TooTallNate>right, indirectly
22:48:12  <TooTallNate>haha
22:48:14  <piscisaureus_>TooTallNate: but this bug is just crazy :-)
22:48:29  <TooTallNate>piscisaureus_: something we should report to the openssl guys?
22:48:38  <piscisaureus_>possibly yeah
22:49:26  <piscisaureus_>Tootallnate: well it seems to be fixed in openssl 1.1.x
22:49:34  <TooTallNate>oh ok
22:50:28  <piscisaureus_>TooTallNate: https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/deps/openssl/openssl/crypto/perlasm/x86_64-xlate.pl#L569
22:50:38  <piscisaureus_>so their fix is slightly more sophisticated than mine :-)
22:51:13  <piscisaureus_>actually lemme just pick theirs
22:51:52  <TooTallNate>sgtm
22:52:52  <piscisaureus_>hmm but their fix is actually borked\
22:54:03  <piscisaureus_>oh nvm
22:55:19  <piscisaureus_>^-- TooTallNate: still ok?
22:55:26  <MI6>joyent/node: Bert Belder winfix * 9b22944 : windows: fix the x64 debug build - http://git.io/Xv-K2A
22:55:27  <piscisaureus_>^-- TooTallNate: that, actually
22:56:40  <TooTallNate>piscisaureus_: if it works
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23:04:31  <piscisaureus_>I can confirm that
23:04:35  <MI6>joyent/node: Bert Belder v0.8 * 9b22944 : windows: fix the x64 debug build - http://git.io/Y0LWnA
23:04:49  <piscisaureus_>git checkout v0.8.13
23:04:56  <piscisaureus_>EWINDOW
23:05:41  <TooTallNate>isaacs: lt?
23:05:45  <TooTallNate>yt rather
23:06:28  <isaacs>TooTallNate: ho
23:06:42  <TooTallNate>isaacs: care to review? https://github.com/TooTallNate/node/commit/add%2Fos-endianness
23:07:38  <isaacs>TooTallNate: lgtm
23:07:50  <TooTallNate>isaacs: thanks!
23:08:35  <piscisaureus_>nice TooTallNate
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23:10:15  <MI6>joyent/node: Nathan Rajlich master * 5e4e87a : os: add os.endianness() function - http://git.io/B-BiYA
23:12:58  <piscisaureus_>^-- isaacs: review?
23:13:02  <piscisaureus_>crap
23:13:03  <MI6>joyent/node: piscisaureus created branch issue4256 - http://git.io/7o6N-A
23:13:06  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: ^-- that
23:13:42  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: lgtm
23:13:45  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: but + test
23:14:05  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: this was necessary because IsUndefined() returns false if domain is set to NULL :-)
23:14:12  <TooTallNate>haha, good 'ol undefined vs. null
23:14:14  <txdv>hei bnoordhuis how is rm-ev going on?
23:14:37  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: also, needs to probably be checked in a few other places, too
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23:15:00  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: can you give me a global range where to look?
23:15:01  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: events.js has if (this.domain) {
23:15:16  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: well, in that case it would work :-)
23:15:18  <TooTallNate>isaacs: that one's ok
23:15:18  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: a bunch in src/node.js too
23:15:33  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: oh, i see, the goal is not to allow blarg.domain=true to not crash
23:15:37  <isaacs>it's to prevent null from crashing
23:15:38  <isaacs>k
23:15:39  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: well, sure
23:15:51  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: well - maybe
23:15:58  <TooTallNate>haha
23:16:03  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: the problem is that node itself was setting domain = null
23:16:07  <isaacs>i'm actually ok with any non-object truthy value crashing, now that i think about it
23:16:08  <piscisaureus_>so that would make it crash
23:16:11  <isaacs>right
23:16:14  <isaacs>makes sense
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23:16:20  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: see https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/4256#issuecomment-10206979
23:16:45  <isaacs>piscisaureus_: yes.
23:16:58  <isaacs>+1
23:17:05  <isaacs>please land, i'll get a v0.8.15 out before i leave
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23:17:29  <isaacs>wanna get andres's domains thing in there, too. i have a fix for the problem with it
23:19:36  <TooTallNate>piscisaureus_: well tnorris in #node.js just confirmed it works
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23:38:00  <piscisaureus_>isaacs: actually, the problem seems to be fixed already in the latest node version]\
23:38:06  <piscisaureus_>er, in 0.8
23:38:28  <piscisaureus_>ah hehe nvm
23:43:24  <piscisaureus_>^-- isaacs, TooTallNate: good to land?
23:43:29  <MI6>joyent/node: Bert Belder issue4256 * 32df4e6 : domains: don't crash if domain is set to null - http://git.io/c4gaVA
23:43:39  <piscisaureus_>^-- that again :-)
23:43:42  <piscisaureus_>I am too fast for MI6
23:44:05  <TooTallNate>haha
23:44:29  <TooTallNate>piscisaureus_: lgtm
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23:49:46  <MI6>joyent/node: Bert Belder v0.8 * b3bfb6f : domains: don't crash if domain is set to null Closes #4256 - http://git.io/nHwbjA
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23:58:30  <bnoordhuis>txdv: it's nearing completion
23:58:55  <bnoordhuis>that is, the first 90% is done
23:59:21  <txdv>90% of work, now comes the 90% of time?
23:59:21  <txdv>'