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00:35:01  <levelbot>[npm] hyperlevel-backup@0.0.1 <http://npm.im/hyperlevel-backup>: replicate or make a backup of a hyperleveldb, taking advantage of the liveBackup function (@maxogden)
00:35:39  <ogd>rescrv: not sure, havent looked at the code
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00:36:47  <ogd>rescrv: are there docs somewhere for liveBackup that I can link to?
00:36:59  <rvagg>ogd: probably logs of this channel!
00:37:13  <ogd>heh yea
00:37:43  <rescrv>ogd: the interface itself has a comment that should describe everything you need
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00:38:01  <ogd>i realized halfway through writing the above module that i can further subdivide it into a level-backup module (that only works if you stop and start leveldb yourself)
00:38:51  <ogd>rescrv: not for me, for explaining it to people who might want to use my module, for now i just explained it in my readme https://github.com/maxogden/hyperlevel-backup#hyperlevel-backup
00:40:27  <rescrv>ogd: that's a fair enough description
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00:46:35  <rescrv>ogd: we'll be publishing a blog post about live backup in the coming weeks
00:47:24  <ogd>nice
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01:45:43  <kenansulayman>rvagg could you check if the memory-map size of lmdb works? doesn't for me at neither uberlevel nor level-lmdb
01:45:55  <kenansulayman>fixed @ default 10m
01:51:59  <kenansulayman>too busy?
01:52:23  <kenansulayman>meh
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01:59:57  <kenansulayman>rvagg I filed an issue
02:00:02  <kenansulayman>gn people :)
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02:13:34  <levelbot>[npm] basholevel@1.0.0 <http://npm.im/basholevel>: A Basho-LevelDB wrapper (level-basho with a cooler name) (@kenansulayman)
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02:17:32  <levelbot>[npm] basholevel@1.0.0 <http://npm.im/basholevel>: A Basho-LevelDB wrapper (level-basho with a cooler name) (@kenansulayman)
02:17:32  <levelbot>[npm] hyperlevel@1.0.0 <http://npm.im/hyperlevel>: A Hyper-LevelDB wrapper (level-hyper with a cooler name) (@kenansulayman)
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02:18:33  <hij1nx>ogd: are you perferring to use hyperlevel as your back end for levelup atm?
02:19:02  <levelbot>[npm] uberlevel@1.0.0 <http://npm.im/uberlevel>: A lmdb wrapper (level-lmdb with a cooler name) (@kenansulayman)
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02:29:05  <kenansulayman>rvagg All my packages now mirror your packages (as you proposed a month ago); no more fuzz. cheers
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02:36:50  <ogd>hij1nx: yep
02:37:18  <ogd>hij1nx: cause livebackup rulz
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02:39:59  <hij1nx>ogd: nice, did you see the issue i posted?
02:41:28  <ogd>hij1nx: the leveldb snapshot api is at the key level whereas in hyperleveldb its at the file level
02:41:58  <ogd>actually ill respond in -issue
02:42:05  <hij1nx>yeah but those are low level things
02:42:11  <hij1nx>k
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02:50:06  <rescrv>ogd: that's not quite it. The "snapshot" and "livebackup" use similar mechanism. The difference being that a snapshot/iterator are in-memory and do not affect the filesystem. A livebackup is intended to fix the filesystem.
02:50:14  <rescrv>s/fix/affect/
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02:52:01  <hij1nx>rescrv are you in manhattan or brooklyn ever?
02:52:02  <levelbot>[npm] npmd@0.17.0 <http://npm.im/npmd>: distributed npm client (@dominictarr)
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02:53:03  <rescrv>hij1nx: I'm in Ithaca almost always, and could use an excuse to get down there. We're looking to hold a hack-a-thon around HyperDex at some point.
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02:54:41  <hij1nx>rescrv: i'm only here for another week before I go to italy to do some node training, i may have a few destinations after that so ?timeframe, but let me know i would love to participate.
02:54:50  <rvagg>haha, "rockslevel"! if you must kenan
02:55:03  <levelbot>[npm] npmd@0.17.1 <http://npm.im/npmd>: distributed npm client (@dominictarr)
02:55:07  <hij1nx>teaching a node class in Florance :D
02:55:15  <ogd>rvagg: haha
02:56:02  <levelbot>[npm] npmd@0.17.2 <http://npm.im/npmd>: distributed npm client (@dominictarr)
02:56:22  <rescrv>hij1nx: I don't think I'll be down in the next week, but I'll definitely let you know when we hold such a hack-a-thon. We'll likely have the node bindings up-to-date by then.
02:57:29  <hij1nx>rescrv: you are not using levelup? its pretty nice :)
02:58:08  <rescrv>hij1nx: I'm a low-level hacker. When I need a data-store I go for HyperDex. I'm biased though.
02:59:34  <ogd>its only a matter of time until someone builds a distributed database in node... but hyperdex does look pretty nice
03:01:27  <rescrv>ogd: I think that's the wrong level at which to build a distributed database. I'd much rather see good bindings to one that's implemented closer to hardware.
03:02:54  <ogd>i see your point, i guess my definition of database gets broader and broader every day :P
03:04:15  <rescrv>ogd: I prefer to avoid the term "database". It reminds me of system R and the "daddy knows best" approach to development. Specialized data stores are better. Make the narrowest interface possible to permit maximum flexibility.
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03:04:55  <rescrv>I think that anything that can be done as a collection of Node processes forming a "database" could be done with a separate data store and stateless node instances.
03:05:36  <rescrv>and that the second approach would be overall better
03:08:03  <levelbot>[npm] dynalite@0.1.2 <http://npm.im/dynalite>: A mock implementation of Amazon's DynamoDB built on LevelDB (@hichaelmart)
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03:10:05  <rvagg>rescrv: +1 that's what a lot of us are actually doing, but the separate data store is still being built in node because there's no other platform at the moment that affords the kind of modularity that Node does
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03:12:19  <rescrv>rvagg: I'm curious what kind of modules need to sit behind the interface of a key-value store like HyperDex. Most things that I can think of would sit right on top, like a shim between HyperDex and the application.
03:12:43  <rescrv>It might be nice to have server-side javascript for mutations and searches, but that's about it.
03:12:56  <rvagg>well we're using leveldb (and lmdb, etc.) as a very pure k/v store and adding "features" on top of that as required
03:13:04  <rvagg>like replication, you often just don't need it, so don't include it
03:13:10  <rvagg>but if you need it, bolt it on
03:13:18  <rvagg>and perhaps you need different kinds of replication strategies
03:13:32  <rvagg>different kinds of features for different kinds of data
03:15:15  <rescrv>I can see people liking to micro-manage. It's not for me, but I can totally respect it. After all, I did micro-manage in my own way to build toward the "ideal" data store.
03:17:37  <rvagg>yeah, well ultimately I think that we'll end up with people who like to build componentised things and people a layer up who use pre-packaged things, but the beauty of this is that we can share all the same components but end up with completely different packages
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03:28:34  <rescrv>rvagg: are there broad categories into which these components fit? I can imagine that most fall into the category of "scalable" or "non-scalable".
03:28:48  <rescrv>The former are local changes, e.g. when doing a write, write secondary indices as well.
03:29:06  <rescrv>The latter are components that introduce pinch points, such as a stream of all incoming changes.
03:29:11  <rvagg>rescrv: yeah, at the moment there's a wide variety
03:29:24  <rescrv>is there a trend toward one or the other?
03:33:19  <rvagg>rescrv: um, not really, there's a lot of chaos happening with different groups tending towards different approaches
03:33:53  <rescrv>If you can ensure components are of the local variety, it'd be near trivial to ensure the distributed case performs well.
03:34:01  <rvagg>of course the non-scalable stuff is more difficult so I guess we're seeing a lot more simple things
03:34:24  <rvagg>rescrv: https://github.com/rvagg/node-levelup/wiki/Modules it's not complete, lots of stuff not listed there, but it gives you an idea
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03:55:02  <levelbot>[npm] dynalite@0.1.2 <http://npm.im/dynalite>: A mock implementation of Amazon's DynamoDB built on LevelDB (@hichaelmart)
03:55:34  <rvagg>not sure what levelbot has against leveldown but @0.10.1 is out, has Node@0.11.9 support for the bleeding edge types
03:56:12  <rvagg>actually I think npm is to blame
03:56:18  <rvagg>probably need to re-publish
03:57:47  <levelbot>[npm] leveldown-hyper@0.10.1 <http://npm.im/leveldown-hyper>: A Node.js LevelDB binding, primary backend for LevelUP (HyperDex fork) (@rvagg)
03:58:32  <rvagg>^^ that's got hyperleveldb@1.0.0 in it, 0.10.0 had 'master' which I'm guessing was pretty close cause it was just a few days ago
03:59:25  <rescrv>rvagg: there's a few changes, but they won't matter for anyone using level
03:59:47  <levelbot>[npm] leveldown@0.10.1 <http://npm.im/leveldown>: A Node.js LevelDB binding, primary backend for LevelUP (@rvagg)
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17:52:18  <levelbot>[npm] mosca@0.14.0 <http://npm.im/mosca>: The multi-transport MQTT broker for node.js. It supports AMQP, Redis, ZeroMQ, MongoDB or just MQTT. (@matteo.collina)
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20:12:38  <ogd>rescrv: what do you think about omitting the LOCK when making a snapshot?
20:12:52  <ogd>rescrv: (.liveBackup snapshot)
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20:16:56  <rescrv>I think I do
20:17:38  <ogd>rescrv: i just hit a bug in my test suite where i tried to make a livebackup and then open it and i got OpenError: IO error: lock /var/folders/j9/mwvv7xfx7kg2vpr1mp5x_5yr0000gn/T/dat2/.dat/store.dat/LOCK: already held by processOpenError: IO error: lock /var/folders/j9/mwvv7xfx7kg2vpr1mp5x_5yr0000gn/T/dat2/.dat/store.dat/LOCK: already held by process
20:17:49  <rescrv>ghttps://github.com/rescrv/HyperLevelDB/blob/master/db/db_impl.cc#L1806-L1808
20:18:08  <ogd>oh hmm
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20:18:41  <ogd>rescrv: its probably on my end then, cheers
20:18:55  <rescrv>ogd: let me know if there's more I can do to help.
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20:49:31  <levelbot>[npm] meatspace-jamon@0.0.4 <http://npm.im/meatspace-jamon>: Threaded chat with LevelDB (@ednapiranha)
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23:27:32  <levelbot>[npm] level-relation@0.1.0 <http://npm.im/level-relation>: relations and joins between sublevels (@stagas)
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