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16:19:30  <dominictarr>rvagg: I got concerned for a bit when I thought this https://twitter.com/leveldbtweets/status/352081233817247744 depended on leveldb....
16:20:10  <mbalho>haha
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16:39:10  <levelbot>[npm] rumours@1.12.1 <http://npm.im/rumours>: general purpose scuttlebutt/leveldb server. (@dominictarr)
16:41:49  <werle>dominictarr: just saw your talk with the wizard outfit haha
16:42:11  <dominictarr>werle: very good
16:42:52  <werle>dominictarr: it was very good
16:44:40  <levelbot>[npm] rumours@1.12.2 <http://npm.im/rumours>: general purpose scuttlebutt/leveldb server. (@dominictarr)
16:48:10  <levelbot>[npm] rumours@1.12.3 <http://npm.im/rumours>: general purpose scuttlebutt/leveldb server. (@dominictarr)
16:54:34  <mcollina>dominictarr: do you think rumours/scuttlebut/whatever of your stuff can be used to build a P2P pub/sub system?
16:54:56  <dominictarr>mcollina: absolutely.
16:55:14  <dominictarr>rumours is legacy now, use level-scuttlebutt/scuttlebutt though
16:55:36  <mcollina>I might want to add a binding for this P2P stuff on https://github.com/mcollina/ascoltatori
16:55:45  <dominictarr>mcollina: the idea for scuttlebutt comes from http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/rvr/papers/flowgossip.pdf
16:56:03  <mcollina>Yep, I've read that after you pointed me to it :)
16:56:10  <dominictarr>and http://hal.upmc.fr/docs/00/55/55/88/PDF/techreport.pdf
16:57:13  <dominictarr>what does ascoltatore mean?
16:57:18  <mcollina>listener
16:57:19  <mcollina>:)
16:58:04  <dominictarr>you should mention that in the readme
16:58:15  <mcollina>From the README: Ascoltatori is an italian word which means listeners. An Ascoltatore is therefore a single listener.
16:58:19  <mcollina>;)
16:58:57  <dominictarr>oh, I see
16:59:37  <dominictarr>the problem I see here is that scuttlebutt need 1:1 connections, but ascoltatori uses broadcast.
17:00:26  <mcollina>So for every peer you need a connection to all the other peers, right?
17:00:46  <dominictarr>no, it just needs to be a connected graph
17:00:49  <dominictarr>on average
17:01:03  <dominictarr>but peers do not require a direct connection
17:01:25  <mcollina>It is fully replicated on all the peers, right?
17:01:27  <dominictarr>it's okay to receive messages from intermediates
17:01:31  <dominictarr>correct.
17:02:02  <mcollina>How about modelling it as a "feed" thing? every topic is a feed. You publish stuff on a feed, and then I hook it up locally and deliver the updates to all the subscribers.
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17:04:47  <dominictarr>hmm. so all the datastructures would still work, but you'd need a different handshake protocol.
17:05:01  <dominictarr>there are reliable multicast protocols
17:05:38  <mcollina>It is ok for having 1:1 connections between the peers.
17:05:58  <dominictarr>but the ones I have seen use multicast for most data, but send corrections via unicast
17:06:16  <mcollina>I am missing why it needs multicast.
17:06:50  <dominictarr>it doesn't need mulitcast, but pub/sub is a multicast model...
17:07:08  <mcollina>uh yep.
17:08:11  <mcollina>I'm think more on a capped-collection approach. Everyone pours data in it. When I receive something I do my pub/sub stuff
17:08:15  <mcollina>Like https://github.com/Raynos/append-only
17:09:04  <mcollina>list.in("item", function(item) { //publish it to local subscribers
17:09:35  <dominictarr>sure, the thing that scuttlebutt does though, first get you back up to date (send what you missed) and then send what is happening live
17:10:19  <dominictarr>if you don't care about being eventual consistency, and are happy with missing what happened when you where disconnected, then pub/sub is fine.
17:11:41  <mcollina>seems fair.
17:12:36  <mcollina>I'll give it a go then. It's actually using the very same approach for MongoDB support.
17:15:13  <mcollina>I should depend on https://github.com/dominictarr/scuttlebutt, right?
17:15:44  <mcollina>Or directly on https://github.com/Raynos/append-only
17:15:46  <mcollina>?
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17:16:00  <Raynos>Oh hi
17:16:43  <dominictarr>I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do, still. if you arn't gonna have the correct handshake thing, you should probably just make it a whole new thing.
17:19:24  <mcollina>Hi Raynos
17:20:36  <mcollina>Maybe, I'll think a little bit more about it then.
17:23:28  <mcollina>The real thing is that I want to make my MQTT broker work in a P2P fashion.
17:23:29  <mcollina>https://github.com/mcollina/mosca
17:24:55  <mcollina>Then I need both a P2P database (for saving retained/offline messages), and also a P2P pub/sub.
17:25:46  <mcollina>So I would like to use level-scuttlebut for both of them.
17:34:44  <dominictarr>mcollina: scuttlebutt/events and Raynos/expiry-model are kinda like pubsub
17:39:04  <mcollina>history is ever cleaned in some way? it seems it is just accumulating stuff there.
17:40:08  <mcollina>for a pub/sub system it is kind of bad, that should be some kind of sliding window.
17:40:10  <dominictarr>so, in scuttlebutt/model old values are over written
17:40:28  <dominictarr>it depends on how data behaves in your application.
17:40:33  <dominictarr>what you want.
17:40:47  <dominictarr>you have to understand the physics of your data.
17:41:01  <dominictarr>you can force stuff to be deleted, too
17:41:08  <dominictarr>which is what expiry-model does.
17:41:15  <mcollina>cool
17:41:16  <mcollina>ok
17:41:43  <mcollina>That stuff is superb. Keep up with the good work, I hope to give it a go soon!
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18:15:09  <levelbot>[npm] level-js@1.0.7 <http://npm.im/level-js>: leveldown/leveldb library for browsers using IndexedDB (@maxogden)
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18:57:18  <mbalho>article about spanner, jeff deans newest datababy http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/11/google-spanner-time/all/
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21:47:25  <Raynos>dominictarr: how do I learn more about the physics of my data?
21:47:59  <mbalho>is it big data
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