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13:22:24  <qwebirc52977>hey guys
13:22:35  <qwebirc52977>how do you update to the latest dev build again?
13:23:16  <qwebirc52977>i wanted to install it on a different computer but somehow the command line was lost to the waves of IRC
13:24:16  <bcraig>update-coapptools -development -killpowershells
13:24:30  <bcraig>copy / pasted from garrett yesterday
13:26:03  <qwebirc52977>thanks :)
13:26:08  <qwebirc52977>that was exactly what i was after
13:32:46  <qwebirc52977>also, i forgot to ask garrett what the new syntax for excluding files in wildcard searches is
13:33:00  <qwebirc52977>does anyone know?
13:33:00  <bcraig>no idea on that one
13:33:02  <qwebirc52977>ok
13:33:31  <qwebirc52977>he'll show up eventually, i guess
13:33:55  <bcraig>something like 6:30 AM his time
13:43:14  * [[zzz]]changed nick to [[zz]]
13:44:47  <qwebirc52977>also, i think i'm changing my mind regarding the overlays
13:45:01  <qwebirc52977>they can actually be pretty cool for managed wrapper binary distribution as well
13:45:21  <qwebirc52977>it's looking pretty good and allows you to cherry pick exactly what you want
13:51:32  <qwebirc52977>however, i still think the overlay redist packages should contain only DLLs, and no .lib or .pdb...
13:51:37  <qwebirc52977>or rather
13:51:46  <qwebirc52977>there's 3 different tasks or aspects here
13:51:48  <qwebirc52977>building
13:51:50  <qwebirc52977>running
13:51:51  <qwebirc52977>debugging
13:52:00  <qwebirc52977>they are all kind of orthogonal requirements
14:07:37  <qwebirc52977>also another suggestion
14:07:57  <qwebirc52977>is to extend CoApp to generate the overlay msbuild scripts also for other framework targets
14:08:22  <qwebirc52977>i mean, i'm essentially copy/pasting the same MSBuild scripts that were generated for native onto the managed targets to do the overlay
14:08:28  <qwebirc52977>might as well generate them as well
14:08:37  <qwebirc52977>they're pretty much identical
14:08:58  <qwebirc52977>except there's less variables to consider
14:09:11  <qwebirc52977>and 'Win32' is replaced with 'x86'
14:09:16  <qwebirc52977>other than that, same basic thing
14:16:22  <qwebirc52977>hmmm
14:16:38  <qwebirc52977>just tried running a native package with the overlays
14:16:48  <qwebirc52977>came up with the following warning:
14:17:36  <qwebirc52977>"Overlay Package 'package.redist-Win32_v110 v2.4.6' installed correctly, but the nupkg file 'packages\package.2.4.6\package.redist-Win32_v110.2.4.6.nupkg' is not in the expected location."
14:43:59  <bcraig>a big use for the redist packages is to make static lib packages smaller
14:44:44  <bcraig>If you have a dll with a good C interface, you can get away with one import lib, but with a static lib, there are so many build pivots to take into account
14:45:07  <bcraig>and if you put them all into the same package, you get a massive download, even if you only use one or two of them
15:00:12  <qwebirc52977>agreed
15:00:30  <qwebirc52977>this may be too extreme, but one option would be to create overlay packages for the lib and pdbs independently
15:00:47  <qwebirc52977>in the ideal world, you would have one overlay for each
15:00:52  <qwebirc52977>dll, lib and pdb
15:01:00  <qwebirc52977>they each serve different purposes
15:01:11  <qwebirc52977>and they each have big enough files that they deserve to be overlaid
15:01:47  <bcraig>I could see that. I could also see nuget.org hosting a symbol server, so that the pdbs don't need a package at all.
15:01:56  <qwebirc52977>yeah
15:02:00  <qwebirc52977>well, they kind of already do that
15:02:00  <bcraig>note that I have no say in what nuget.org does
15:02:08  <qwebirc52977>there's a symbolserver for nuget packages
15:02:30  <qwebirc52977>they use this: http://www.symbolsource.org/
15:02:40  <qwebirc52977>don't know if there's any restrictions here regarding native packages
15:02:47  <qwebirc52977>but i wouldn't think so
15:03:20  <bcraig>looks nice. I don't know if .targets files and the like can mess with the symbol path or not
15:04:36  <qwebirc52977>David Ebbo has a nice blog post detailing the use of symbol packages
15:04:37  <qwebirc52977>http://blog.davidebbo.com/2011/04/easy-way-to-publish-nuget-packages-with.html
15:05:18  <qwebirc52977>again, i don't know what the difficulties would be for native packages
15:05:24  <qwebirc52977>but ideally, it would be exactly the same
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