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01:37:14  <qwebirc33215>hey guys
01:37:44  <qwebirc33215>quick question: are multiple coapp packages supposed to coexist in the same project?
01:38:07  <qwebirc33215>i've tried adding two native packages made by coapp onto the same project
01:38:16  <qwebirc33215>the first one I add detects include files, etc, just fine
01:38:28  <qwebirc33215>the second one I add doesn't work
01:38:37  <qwebirc33215>include files are not detected
01:41:37  <qwebirc33215>hmmm
01:41:57  <qwebirc33215>apparently it works if two packages depend on each other, like openssl -> zlib
01:42:11  <qwebirc33215>but only if you add the dependent package first, like openssl
01:42:17  <qwebirc33215>then you can use both openssl and zlib
01:42:25  <qwebirc33215>but if you first add zlib
01:42:28  <qwebirc33215>and then openssl
01:42:35  <qwebirc33215>you'll only be able to use zlib
01:47:11  <qwebirc33215>ok, apparently it works if you reload the project file
01:47:38  <qwebirc33215>probably some weird msbuild cache thing
01:47:44  <qwebirc33215>sorry about that
01:48:10  <qwebirc33215>anyway, it's a bit confusing behavior and not entirely desirable i would imagine
01:48:15  <qwebirc33215>cheers
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02:09:17  <qwebirc70646>one more thing
02:09:32  <qwebirc70646>i heard you guys are planning to throw out the redist package
02:09:41  <qwebirc70646>i have a suggestion to put it to another use:
02:09:46  <qwebirc70646>c# wrappers
02:10:16  <qwebirc70646>wrappers usually need to deploy native DLLs to the project output
02:10:36  <madewokherd>I've had none of these problems involving multiple packages
02:10:42  <qwebirc70646>if these are already conveniently exposed in a redist package
02:10:52  <qwebirc70646>all the better
02:11:16  <qwebirc70646>madewokherd: i only just noticed this with VS2012 Express for Desktop
02:11:28  <qwebirc70646>no idea how prevalent it is
02:11:54  <qwebirc70646>but i did repro the problem 2 or 3 times with clean projects
02:12:05  <qwebirc70646>to make sure i was not screwing anything up with my specific packages
02:12:12  <qwebirc70646>hence the example with openssl and zlib
02:12:38  <qwebirc70646>as i said, reloading the project file solved the issue
02:12:46  <qwebirc70646>which makes me think is an msbuild cache thing
02:13:09  <qwebirc70646>it has happened to me in the past when modifying msbuild files behind the hood
02:13:19  <qwebirc70646>but not sure how much it affects coapp's stuff
02:13:37  <madewokherd>I always close the project in VS before modifying any files directly
02:13:54  <qwebirc70646>yes, me too
02:13:58  <qwebirc70646>but in this case when using nuget
02:14:05  <qwebirc70646>it's nuget that does it for you on package installation
02:14:10  <qwebirc70646>and i'm not sure how it deals with that
02:14:54  <qwebirc70646>adding props and targets files to C# nuget packages seems to work fine
02:15:06  <qwebirc70646>not sure if C++ msbuild has any additional quirks
02:16:02  <qwebirc70646>also, not sure if the issue affects only .targets file or only .props files
02:16:04  <qwebirc70646>or both
02:16:16  <qwebirc70646>have to try some more variants to test for that
02:16:30  <qwebirc70646>anyway, i'll give it a closer look tomorrow
02:16:40  <qwebirc70646>just wanted to drop in this extra idea about the redist packages
02:16:57  <qwebirc70646>i've been trying to figure out a good way to formalize managed to native interactions in NuGet
02:17:26  <qwebirc70646>the gist of it is:
02:17:34  <qwebirc70646>* wrappers need to deploy native binaries
02:17:47  <qwebirc70646>* wrappers tend to evolve independently of their target libraries
02:18:29  <qwebirc70646>* it follows they should be versioned independently and can just take a dependency of the native package somehow, if one is available
02:19:00  <qwebirc70646>however, it probably doesn't make sense to take a dependency on the build/devel package
02:19:14  <qwebirc70646>since a c# wrapper doesn't care for include or lib files
02:19:22  <qwebirc70646>only the final DLL
02:21:27  <qwebirc70646>the only problem is that currently redist packages do not know how to install themselves on managed projects
02:21:40  <qwebirc70646>since they only declare the "native" target platform
02:22:53  <qwebirc70646>it would be a shame to have to duplicate a NuGet package with exactly the same files just so you can add another .targets file
02:23:31  <qwebirc70646>might as well add managed configurations to the redist package
02:23:59  <qwebirc70646>so it also copies the binaries to the targetdir of a managed project
02:25:41  <qwebirc70646>in this way, wrapper integration could proceed seamlessly
02:25:59  <qwebirc70646>not to mention it could even make sense for stand-alone managed applications
02:26:10  <qwebirc70646>if i just want to take a native lib and p/invoke directly on to it
02:26:18  <qwebirc70646>i could just install the native redist onto my managed project
02:26:22  <qwebirc70646>and be done with it
02:32:01  <qwebirc70646>the only twist to look out for is platform architecture
02:32:15  <qwebirc70646>since there is no "AnyCPU" for native projects
02:32:28  <qwebirc70646>means there is no safe default to pick for deployment
02:33:20  <qwebirc70646>might as well enforce that deployment is only done if the managed project explicitly targets "x86" or "x64"
02:37:44  <qwebirc70646>alright, need to catch back on my sleep
02:38:17  <qwebirc70646>don't kill redist! (at least not without a second thought about this wrapper business)
02:38:39  <qwebirc70646>also... i'd like to understand better why redist packages cannot take dependencies on other redist packages...
02:38:45  <qwebirc70646>but this for another day. must sleep...
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13:00:42  <qwebirc90864>just to let you guys know the "contribute" link on the homepage is broken
13:01:00  <qwebirc90864>also, would be nice to have a forum besides the mailing list
13:01:06  <qwebirc90864>cya
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18:48:26  <FearTheCowboy>Blog Post: The State of CoApp -- http://t.co/IS4yngClyr Where we are, and what's next...
18:51:41  <vpovirk>FearTheCowboy: did you follow the comments about managed projects with native deps at all?
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19:33:15  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I saw it.
19:33:24  <FearTheCowboy>That's a complicated scenario
19:34:10  <FearTheCowboy>There might be a way we can use the new fine-grained overlay (satellite) packages to help support that.
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