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20:10:14  <auroraeosrose>FearTheCowboy or anyone else on win8 - setting up a new vm - what are your must have tools/apps/etc
20:10:37  <ender`>StartIsBack definitely
20:10:53  <ender`>if nothing else, it allows for easier start screen access with mouse :)
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20:11:29  <auroraeosrose>heh, but it is 30 day trial or pay for it
20:11:31  <auroraeosrose>squick
20:11:44  <auroraeosrose>and it's per pc license
20:11:52  <auroraeosrose>which is frankly untenable with the multiple vms I do
20:11:55  * auroraeosrosehas sad pouty
20:12:18  <ender`>$5 for 5 PCs
20:13:44  <ender`>not really a problem for me - i usually create 1 VM, then use snapshots
20:14:28  <FearTheCowboy> Yeah, I can't live without tha
20:14:43  <auroraeosrose>they often get cranky when I copy them across to other physical machines though ender
20:15:05  <auroraeosrose>I've had to do different windows keys after that
20:15:08  <FearTheCowboy>past that, the typical ScITE editor, console2,
20:15:09  <auroraeosrose>which annoys the frack out of me
20:15:29  <ender`>while i haven't done exactly that, some of my VMs date back to when i still had single-core Athlon64
20:15:43  <ender`>(my updates were always gradual)
20:15:46  <auroraeosrose>LOL
20:16:08  <auroraeosrose>yeah, see I tend to use the vm on my desktop - then pop it on a flash drive and stick it on my laptop when traveling (easier then over network)
20:16:19  <auroraeosrose>and pop it on the basement server if I just need it running
20:16:22  <auroraeosrose>(tests et al)
20:16:40  <ender`>hm, now that you mention it, i did copy some VMs to my laptop
20:17:44  <ender`>never really caused a problem, even when i forgot to shut down the VM before copying (VMWare did complain that resuming on a different CPU might cause problems)
20:18:19  <FearTheCowboy>I actually have a whole folder of useful stuff that I dropbox-sync to nearly every machine that I commonly use
20:18:21  * auroraeosroseshrugs
20:18:29  <auroraeosrose>hehe FearTheCowboy
20:18:39  <auroraeosrose>I really want everything I use in coapp packages so they autoupdate
20:18:41  * auroraeosrosewhites
20:18:45  * auroraeosrosewhines too
20:18:53  <auroraeosrose>ME LAZY
20:18:58  <auroraeosrose>PUT THIS ON COMPUTER _ UPDATE AT WILL
20:18:59  <auroraeosrose>ahem
20:19:04  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah; next stable-ish version should be late february.
20:19:14  <auroraeosrose>sweet
20:19:15  <FearTheCowboy>and support install-less coapp.exe
20:19:19  <ender`>speaking of VMs: http://eternallybored.org/imgs/boot/XP351.png
20:19:22  <auroraeosrose>I will break... errr... test it for you
20:19:30  <FearTheCowboy>so just copy the exe and start installing :D
20:20:11  <FearTheCowboy>I'm working on the Nuget native package build stuff right now, once that's done, we can get back to business building stuff.
20:20:23  <auroraeosrose>how is that going?
20:20:59  <auroraeosrose>I'm having a hilarious day - was contracted to update some stuff in an "iOS app" - opened it up and it was appcelerator
20:21:01  * auroraeosrosegiggles
20:21:27  <auroraeosrose>sigh - I think I need to write a blog post for not techy types on what to watch out for when contracting
20:21:44  <FearTheCowboy>Pretty damn good.
20:22:33  <FearTheCowboy>The proj.props file that needs to get inserted into the consuming project, is gonna get generated from this tool, and co-incidentally will share a ton of code with the always-mentioned-but-never built mkProject (for generating full vs project files)
20:22:50  <auroraeosrose>LOL
20:22:53  <FearTheCowboy>and oddly enough the next PTK
20:22:55  <auroraeosrose>always mentioned but never built
20:23:01  <auroraeosrose>and yeah, ptk needs some major surgery
20:23:04  * auroraeosrosesighs
20:23:24  <FearTheCowboy>Whole new one coming in the next few weeks.
20:23:40  <auroraeosrose>awesome - is it modular in any way or still a lot like the old one ;)
20:23:51  <FearTheCowboy>Uh, Both!
20:24:37  <auroraeosrose>that's unpossible
20:24:39  <auroraeosrose>;)
20:24:43  <madewokherd>7zip, winscp, firefox
20:25:00  <FearTheCowboy>it's still similar to the old one (so old scripts will build with little or no change) ...but ... will support essentially everything that MSBUILD does without a complex grammar (or XML).
20:25:28  <auroraeosrose>hmmm, I meant in general architecture of hte code, it was kind of ... hacky a bit ;)
20:25:28  <FearTheCowboy>The new one will actually use MSBUILD engine underneath, but it's as simple (or simpler) than before.
20:25:39  <FearTheCowboy>Oh, yeah, unrelated code base :)
20:25:46  <auroraeosrose>ok ;)
20:26:24  <FearTheCowboy>Oddly enough the native-nuget-packager, PTK and mkProject are all very closely related underneath.
20:27:02  <FearTheCowboy>two of them generate MSBUILD proj files for external consumption, while PTK uses the same code to generate the objectmodel and then just executes it directly.
20:27:22  <FearTheCowboy>and it's WAY WAY WAY less convoluted to script than MSBUILD
20:27:39  <FearTheCowboy>Sadly, MSBUILD is so much nicer on the inside than it is on the outside :S
20:28:32  <FearTheCowboy>for the .props file generation for nuget, if stuff is laid out relatively intelligently on disk, you may even get away without having to build an .autopkg script at all for developer libraries.
20:28:46  <madewokherd>I want all the things I use in coapp so I can get them ported to windows rt :p
20:28:59  <FearTheCowboy>if your layout is not-predictable or consistent, a small .autopkg file will be needed
20:29:38  <FearTheCowboy>madewokherd -> me too. I've pretty much decided to replace the WPF code for WinForms in the client (still look the same tho') so we can use it unmodified on RT.
20:29:45  <FearTheCowboy>(jailbroken RT)
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20:36:49  <FearTheCowboy>pisci_away -> when you come back, ping me
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20:43:28  <auroraeosrose>hehe, win8 installer is a little schizophrenic
20:43:38  <auroraeosrose>all the beginning stuff is a "metroy" interface
20:43:50  <auroraeosrose>but from the key entry on it's old win7 style
20:43:51  <auroraeosrose>LOL
20:44:41  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, we're real good at consistency, eh?
20:45:10  <auroraeosrose>hilarious
20:45:30  <auroraeosrose>I mean I rather liked the new interface, it was fast and snappy - but it was so jarring to see the different section
20:45:31  <auroraeosrose>LOL
20:48:43  <auroraeosrose>Visual Studio 2012 Update 1 - is that their new service pack name?
20:48:45  <auroraeosrose>goofy
20:50:27  <FearTheCowboy>*sigh*
20:52:09  <FearTheCowboy>Signs you are a true geek: You *love* hand-coding a parser.
20:52:28  * auroraeosroselifts eyebrow
20:52:53  <FearTheCowboy>I could do a PhD on this subject. *grin*
20:53:04  <auroraeosrose>hmmm
20:53:21  <auroraeosrose>so running the windows 8 phone emulator requires basically hyper-V
20:53:30  <auroraeosrose>bah humbug
20:53:30  <FearTheCowboy>Yeaaaap
20:53:43  <FearTheCowboy>it's actually running WP-8 x86
20:53:43  <auroraeosrose>guess it is time to upgrade my basement monster
20:53:53  <auroraeosrose>which does hyper-V already swell
20:54:14  <auroraeosrose>question is - can I run a vm in hyper V to develop the mobile app and run the emulator
20:54:19  * auroraeosrosegrins evilly
20:57:31  <FearTheCowboy>O_O doubt it.
20:58:02  <FearTheCowboy>although, might ask Rafael -- I know that he was plinkin' around to get it so he could run the VM on another host, so that might let you do that.
20:58:29  <auroraeosrose>that would be the most perfect solution
20:58:29  <FearTheCowboy>so DEVVM -> RemoteHVHOST -> WP8VM
20:58:33  <auroraeosrose>yup
20:58:42  <auroraeosrose>that would actually be the best
20:58:55  <auroraeosrose>keep from eating resources on teh dev machine while running the emulator
20:58:59  <auroraeosrose>where is that boy
20:59:38  <FearTheCowboy>just tweeted him
21:00:21  <auroraeosrose>sweet
21:00:22  <auroraeosrose>thanks
21:00:31  <auroraeosrose>yeah, if I could just say "yo, dude, vm here"
21:00:35  <auroraeosrose>I would be happy
21:00:44  <auroraeosrose>why would you dev on your hyper-v host
21:00:46  <auroraeosrose>ewwwww
21:01:05  <virmitio>Windows 8 is a Hyper-V host
21:01:05  <FearTheCowboy>well, Win8 client now has H-v
21:01:11  <FearTheCowboy>jinx
21:01:21  * virmitiomumbles incoherently
21:01:28  <auroraeosrose>virmitio: but that's a bit different then
21:01:37  <auroraeosrose>"this is the giant box where all my vms run"
21:01:46  <auroraeosrose>more like "oh, it's like built in virtualbox"
21:04:30  <FearTheCowboy>hope your Hyper-V beast is Server 2012
21:05:02  <madewokherd>[14:52:09] <FearTheCowboy> Signs you are a true geek: You *love* hand-coding a parser. <-- I think it's a sign that parser generators suck
21:05:14  <FearTheCowboy>LOL that too.
21:06:25  <madewokherd>my ideal parser generator would be as simple to start using as regular expressions, but with the ability to write it symbolically
21:06:48  <FearTheCowboy>O_O
21:07:01  <FearTheCowboy>let's you and I not collaborate on that,ok?
21:07:03  <FearTheCowboy>LOL
21:07:05  <auroraeosrose>actually FearTheCowboy, I'm not sure what it is, but it's time for an upgrade
21:07:50  <auroraeosrose>=probably should replace the failed drive too
21:07:54  * auroraeosroseis a bad bad person
21:09:06  <FearTheCowboy>auroraeosrose -> you need a box like my new server.
21:09:35  <FearTheCowboy>8 x 3 TB drives. 32 Gigs ram. Monster sized Processor
21:10:56  <auroraeosrose>mine is ok - it's a two processor - quad core (that's 8 yo) plus 16gb ram - the only thing it lacks is storage - has like two dinky 500 or so gb set up in a raid, and one has gone caput
21:11:13  <FearTheCowboy>Two procs?
21:11:18  <FearTheCowboy>oh, 2x4 = 8
21:11:19  <FearTheCowboy>ah
21:11:21  <auroraeosrose>yup
21:11:42  <auroraeosrose>so really, cpu and ram are NOT the issue - just storage ;)
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21:13:06  <FearTheCowboy>http://j.mp/UR1lo4 and http://j.mp/UR1rfv
21:13:41  <FearTheCowboy>The disk is using Server 2012 StorageSpaces with Parity. (so it's n-1 size)
21:14:42  <FearTheCowboy>(if you're going to use storage spaces on server 2012 -- talk to me before so I can explain the difference between marketing and reality
21:15:31  <auroraeosrose>heh, probably not
21:16:03  <auroraeosrose>it's kind of just a "dump the photos, videos, music" spot - along with a host for vms that run constantly (testing instead of dev)
21:17:44  <FearTheCowboy>Well, the nice thing about 2012 is that you get data deduplication, so even if you have 10 copies of the same picture, you're not storing 10 times :D
21:18:53  <auroraeosrose>sweet
21:19:54  <FearTheCowboy>So I've got folders for stuff like that... and all of the irreplacable content is getting backed up to Crashplan. (which I signed up for on black friday, so the first year was $2.42 for unlimited backup)
21:20:30  <FearTheCowboy>and all the machines in the house run win 8, and have their 'backup folder' (really windows 8's best and largely unknown feature) to the server
21:21:13  <FearTheCowboy>so that all the useful content on all the machines in the house is backed up to crashplan. :D
21:22:25  <FearTheCowboy>The dedup is lazy, so it doesn't take an ungodly amount of memory (like the very cool, yet painful ZFS)
21:23:00  <FearTheCowboy>to have dedup on a 20TB volume w/zfs, you have to have (20*5= 100) GB of *RAM*
21:24:58  <FearTheCowboy>Hmm I think I just thought of a tool I'd like.
21:25:40  <FearTheCowboy>a loopback filesystem that just falls straight thru to another filesystem, but has something like a .gitignore filter on it.
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