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16:49:13  <GarrettS-MSFT>Well, after my meetings yesterday, I think we're gonna stick with an MSI 'wrapper', but likely abandon MSI/Windows Installer as a installation technology.
16:49:18  * GarrettS-MSFTchanged nick to FearTheCowboy
16:49:55  <FearTheCowboy>If this stuff works out, we'd be able to install CoApp packages with built-in tools in Windows like DISM and WMI.
16:50:05  <FearTheCowboy>and that, would be truely awesome
16:50:18  <vpovirk>so the package would be .msi but you'd be able to install them without msi?
16:50:51  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, the MSI would be used simply as a method for running the bootstrapper (so that back-plat systems could get the required components) without a pre-install
16:50:55  <vpovirk>WMI? wine's really going to love this
16:51:25  <FearTheCowboy>WMI support comes from being supported by the underlying system that DISM sits on.
16:51:37  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. Wine does't have DISM does it?
16:51:49  <vpovirk>I've never even heard of it
16:52:18  <FearTheCowboy>(luckily, the packages themselves should be actually really simple to install, it's essentially an embedded cab file with some metadata/instructions.
16:52:30  <FearTheCowboy>probably a ton simpler to implement than MSI in the first place.
16:53:01  <vpovirk>uh you're not planning to put the metadata in the cab...?
16:53:45  <vpovirk>if so, that's going to be a little annoying for cross-platform tools
16:53:52  <vpovirk>but I guess doable
16:57:18  <vpovirk>any related libraries/api calls I can look up for DISM?
17:02:45  <FearTheCowboy>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh824790.aspx
17:02:57  <FearTheCowboy>Where the metadata is hasn't been decided
17:03:20  <FearTheCowboy>On the upside, this likely precipitates the necessity that CoApp itself goes native.
17:03:25  <FearTheCowboy>C++ here we come :S
17:04:19  <vpovirk>I'd suggest putting it in a separate stream
17:04:30  <FearTheCowboy>that was my feeling as well.
17:05:21  <FearTheCowboy>I'd like to think that we can avoid having to put anything of value into 'MSI' properties, at all, and just build a template MSI that we can open as OLE storage and dump in the cab, and metadata in as streams.
17:06:01  <vpovirk>pre-release? well then we definitely don't have DISM
17:06:44  <auroraeosrose>FearTheCowboy: I don't mind C++ (or C = love love)
17:06:47  <FearTheCowboy>then we just gotta solve the 'authenticode-sign-the-MSI' problem, and it wouldn't be hard to make packages on Linux
17:06:49  <vpovirk>well you'll still have to write the summary and property tables, and sign the msi at least
17:07:01  <vpovirk>yeah :/
17:07:18  <vpovirk>that's the hard part
17:07:32  <FearTheCowboy>signing is gonna be the harder part. Maybe I'll have to pry out the code from windows to sign MSIs and open source that.
17:07:43  <auroraeosrose>that would be nice
17:08:23  <vpovirk>and then I can just add it to the msi library I'm apparently going to write, never mind that I know nothing about cryptography :p
17:08:38  <auroraeosrose>hehe
17:08:47  <FearTheCowboy>as long as you can "use" crypto, you don't need to know "how" :)
17:09:18  <FearTheCowboy>really, the signature should be able to be generated using OpenSSL. Just knowing what to hash, and what the format of the signature is is all we really need.
17:09:29  <vpovirk>I can read things about crypto, but I fail to absorb any information in the process
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17:09:39  <FearTheCowboy>I'm actually surprised that isn't in one of those docs that are MS is required to publish..
17:09:52  <vpovirk>it's a weird set
17:10:08  <auroraeosrose>it might be - just buried somewhere
17:10:22  <vpovirk>patch formats aren't in there either that I saw
17:10:46  <vpovirk>but property set storage is
17:11:04  <auroraeosrose>ok that's just...
17:11:09  <auroraeosrose>insanity
17:11:32  <vpovirk>well, the library will be open source, so someone else can add it :p
17:11:56  <vpovirk>also it's going to depend on libgsf and therefore glib
17:12:24  <FearTheCowboy>gotta step out for a bit
18:22:01  <FearTheCowboy>I'm back :)
18:22:10  <FearTheCowboy>I got about a 1/2 hour till another meeting.
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18:27:03  <FearTheCowboy>Hmm. Yeah, I can't seem to find any open docs on MSI file format at all. *sigh*
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21:11:57  <FearTheCowboy>I finally found the code in windows that grabs the data that gets hashed for MSI digital signatures.
21:14:36  <wwahammy>so when Cristina tries to debug her project, it takes about 3 minutes for it to start (VS is unresponsive during that time) and then takes 2 minutes to stop debugging
21:14:47  <wwahammy>it only happens on this particular project
21:14:49  <wwahammy>any ideas?
21:15:13  <virmitio>tell the gremlins to take a vacation?
21:15:23  <wwahammy>I wish
21:17:51  <FearTheCowboy>hmm.
21:18:02  <FearTheCowboy>does she have 'native debugging' turned on ?
21:18:10  <FearTheCowboy>that will grind it to death.
21:19:03  <wwahammy>nope
21:19:19  <FearTheCowboy>no idea then...
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21:20:30  <wwahammy>ya, I'm stumped too
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22:53:14  <virmitio>fun things to know and share: MySQL source is only available on launchpad, via bazaar. tarballs are not available (at least I can't locate anything even remotely recent anywhere on the internet)
23:03:19  * ender`quit (Quit: Punch a psychic today: ask them if they saw it coming.)
23:03:36  <auroraeosrose>that's... cute
23:03:39  <auroraeosrose>no github mirror?
23:03:43  <auroraeosrose>we love oracle
23:05:06  <virmitio>not official mirror on github, and nothing that was only a straight mirror without also having unrelated changes included
23:06:01  <auroraeosrose>ugh
23:07:41  <auroraeosrose>I found tarballs!
23:07:45  <auroraeosrose>they're a PITA!
23:08:18  <virmitio>huh?
23:08:32  * virmitiois the confused
23:08:35  <madewokherd>my last resort is to grab tarballs from debian source packages
23:08:41  <madewokherd>I ended up doing that for berkeleydb
23:08:47  <virmitio>ah
23:08:48  <auroraeosrose>virmitio: if you go to mysql.com
23:08:57  <auroraeosrose>and dig in the mirrors and downloads
23:09:02  <auroraeosrose>you can find source tarballs
23:09:08  <auroraeosrose>they're a bitch to find
23:09:12  <auroraeosrose>and you can't direct link to them
23:09:14  <auroraeosrose>but they're there
23:09:24  <virmitio>joy
23:10:04  <auroraeosrose>http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mirror.php?id=408618 - does this work?
23:10:09  <auroraeosrose>click on "gimme my download fool"
23:10:46  <auroraeosrose>so you go to downloads, and then tell them you want source
23:10:56  <auroraeosrose>then tell them you want a generic tarball and not any of that rpm crap
23:11:01  <auroraeosrose>then they give you that shiny screen
23:11:06  <auroraeosrose>then FINALLY you get the code
23:11:10  * auroraeosrosekicks oracle
23:11:37  <virmitio>where's trogdor when you need him?
23:11:44  * virmitioneeds to burninate somebody
23:12:03  <auroraeosrose>but but - I FOUND IT FOR YOU
23:12:07  <auroraeosrose>after... some digging
23:12:11  * auroraeosrosemumbles
23:12:21  <virmitio>you did, and I appreciate it
23:12:28  <madewokherd>you know come to think of it maybe berkeleydb was oracle
23:12:32  <virmitio>it's not you that needs burninating
23:12:39  <virmitio>it is
23:13:22  <virmitio>all of the major DB engines now seem to belong to oracle (and to a lesser extent, MS)
23:13:58  <virmitio>ok, brain is done. going home
23:14:14  <virmitio>will return for more brain melting in the morning
23:14:43  * virmitioquit (Quit: Leaving.)
23:16:10  <auroraeosrose>postgresql is still FREEE
23:16:14  <auroraeosrose>FEEEEEL THE FREEEDOME
23:16:15  <auroraeosrose>ahem