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18:46:20  * FearTheCowboytopic: CoApp Package Management System ( http://coapp.org | https://github.com/coapp | https://github.com/coapp-packages | ML: http://launchpad.net/coapp )-- FYI, channel logging is on, what you say is forever recorded
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19:25:06  <virmitio>silly question from the young guy: libbz2 - does this result from building the bzip2 repo, or would it be from a separate set of sources?
19:26:17  <vpovirk>looks like it's in bzip2
19:27:06  <ender`>it is
19:27:10  <virmitio>thank you. planning to shift to that after I do housecleaning on mpir
19:27:30  <ender`>and you might have problems building stuff that requres libbz2 on x86 and checks for it with configure
19:27:57  <vpovirk>more like, you might have problems with anything involving configure
19:28:18  <virmitio>I have thoughts on how to avoid those issues
19:28:32  <ender`>(at least gimp's configure checks for one of the functions in libbz2 by declaring it in the test program, which then fails to link due to calling convention mismatch)
19:28:35  <virmitio>but testing those thoughts will likely need to wait until tomorrow
19:29:16  <vpovirk>we can't use msvc to build gimp?
19:29:41  <virmitio>I'd settle for nmake
19:30:00  <virmitio>or even a roughly understandable Makefile
19:30:21  <vpovirk>right
19:30:26  * virmitioreally hates generated Makefiles
19:30:38  <ender`>people have built gimp with msvc
19:30:41  <vpovirk>we pretty much don't have mingw versions of any libraries
19:30:51  <vpovirk>so if you need configure, we have bigger problems
19:31:23  <ender`>if you have msvc6 versions of libraries, those can be used by mingw
19:31:35  <vpovirk>right, we don't
19:31:57  <virmitio>let me get through the release and I'll see how quick I can fix that
19:32:45  <virmitio>but I'd still like to build gimp under vc10 if possible (gives me much more room for making adjustments and building alternate flavors)
19:42:48  <FearTheCowboy>wwahammy -> you around?
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20:58:52  <virmitio>another silly question from the age-impaired packager: we have a repo labeled libxslt. Is this functionally identical (or a suitable replacement for) libxsl with respect to php?
20:59:15  * FearTheCowboydoesn't know... auroraeosrose?
21:03:35  <auroraeosrose>uh
21:03:37  <auroraeosrose>dunno
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21:22:27  <virmitio>based on the PHP manual's references to XSL, it looks like the library is supposed to be called libxslt, so I'm going to run with it for now
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22:39:30  <FearTheCowboy>I just had an amazing call with folks doing Win9 planning on how we're going to have packaging (like ... "CoApp") as a component in Windows...
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22:40:31  <FearTheCowboy>Essentially, merging our packaging interests into theirs; and the OS would support coapp-like packages.
22:40:47  <FearTheCowboy>With a slight re-working of our tools, we'd be spitting out those packages. :D
22:41:48  <FearTheCowboy>*Included* in future versions of Windows. To the point that Server Core would do this.
22:42:34  <Scotis_>wow - that cool! how'd that come about?
22:44:14  <FearTheCowboy>Well, they were talking with someone about builds of things like PHP, and they forwarded one of my emails around.
22:44:46  <Scotis_>nice! :)
22:45:22  <Scotis_>what is the timeline for Win9? 3 years like Vista -> 7 -> 8 ?
22:45:49  <FearTheCowboy>It looks like they could provide the basic packaging infrastructure, and we could just add on top of that. And really, as long as our tools could target their format, we win. :)
22:46:16  <FearTheCowboy>Sever2008 -> Server2008R2/Win7 was two years
22:46:20  <FearTheCowboy>as is 7 -> 8
22:46:32  <Scotis_>7 came out in 2009 yes?
22:47:16  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. maybe it was.
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22:47:29  <FearTheCowboy>we're supposed to be on a two year cycle... :S
22:47:30  <FearTheCowboy>anyway.
22:47:35  <FearTheCowboy>it would be sooner than that
22:47:52  <FearTheCowboy>essentially, they'll provide the back-platform bits, and we'll make sure they get bootstrapped.
22:48:48  <Scotis_>i have a hard time believing they can stick to a 2 year cycle if they want to compete w/ the iPad w/ Windows RT
22:49:17  <Scotis_>it really should be a 1 year cycle
22:49:28  <FearTheCowboy>well, not my problem... heh-heh
22:49:35  <Scotis_>yeah ha
22:49:50  <FearTheCowboy>Anyway, we may target CoApp 2.0 to use that within the next 12 or so months..
22:49:59  <Scotis_>fun!
22:50:02  <FearTheCowboy>or less, if they do most of the work :)
22:50:27  <Scotis_>that would be nice :)
22:51:18  <Scotis_>what are they trying to enable that a CoApp-like thing helps solve?
22:51:18  <FearTheCowboy>Indeed--we could focus on the parts that were really the motivating ideas,like building better ports (as opposed to building the package system itself)
22:51:35  <Scotis_>from their perspective
22:51:46  <Scotis_>i know why you guys are building it - but why do they want something like this?
22:51:50  <FearTheCowboy>Essentially a better software install/servicing module that correctly handles dependencies, and offline installs (so you could install to an offline VM)
22:52:03  <FearTheCowboy>things that MSI doesn't work for.
22:52:10  <FearTheCowboy>and that people can't do right now correctly
22:52:30  <Scotis_>is this coming from the server people or the client people?
22:52:36  <FearTheCowboy>server
22:52:43  <Scotis_>ok yeah that makes sense
22:53:00  <FearTheCowboy>Client gets the benefits too...
22:53:19  <Scotis_>i'm sure they are like "wtf? someone is using SxS correctly?!?"
22:53:20  <FearTheCowboy>they wanna make it easier to install stacks to things like server core, so they don't have to drag in the whole damn OS
22:53:25  <FearTheCowboy>LOL
22:53:30  <FearTheCowboy>A bit. :)
22:54:01  <FearTheCowboy>I want to make sure that the same thing that works for end users, works for IT pros, and devlopers. Done right, it's all the same damn thing
22:54:15  <Scotis_>yep - very true
22:55:19  <Scotis_>well - i'm very excited for you - nice to have some other people inside MS realize how important and useful this stuff is :)
23:41:37  <Scotis_>what was this said win server 2012 feature?
23:41:56  <FearTheCowboy>*sigh* ... I wish I could say.
23:47:16  <Scotis_>SP1 material?
23:47:40  <Scotis_>or R2 material? (are they going to do a 2012 R2?)
23:48:35  <FearTheCowboy>Good question.