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14:27:48  <FearTheCowboy>I finally figured out where I'd seen the Windows8 start screen before.
14:27:48  <FearTheCowboy>http://www.telecommander.com/pics/links/application%20software/microsoft/Microsoft_Bob_1_0/Microsoft_Bob_1_0_files/features.gif
14:28:42  <auroraeosrose>LOL
14:28:52  <FearTheCowboy>It was Bob all along!
15:08:24  <FearTheCowboy>The more I think of it, the only way I'd pick up an WinRT tablet, is if there was a really good WINE app.
15:09:45  <auroraeosrose>hehehe
15:09:49  <FearTheCowboy>I'm really just hoping for a really good x86/x64 tablet. I'd even buy something that had an AMD APU in it, if AMD delivers something that has good performance and doesn't exceed the thermal profile.
15:10:26  <FearTheCowboy>I can't ever imagine being trapped in a WinRT world. I just don't get the point.
15:10:52  <vpovirk>what would you expect wine to do?
15:10:56  <vpovirk>because it probably wouldn't do it
15:11:40  <vpovirk>it can't translate across CPU architectures; you'd need to combine it with QEMU for that, and that only works on Linux and Mac
15:11:56  <FearTheCowboy>well, run Windows app in a WinRT surface. (I know that's nearly impossible--certainly without hacking the low-level APIs in the first place)
15:12:01  <FearTheCowboy>hmm.
15:12:08  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I forgot about the CPU translation.
15:12:33  <vpovirk>I think no matter what you need a full VM, and at that point you might as well use Windows (or just get an x86 tablet)
15:12:35  <FearTheCowboy>You know, I don't mind WinRT apps as an add-on to desktop apps
15:12:43  <FearTheCowboy>but, I can't see living in that box.
15:13:24  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, you're right about that.
15:14:44  <FearTheCowboy>Given the rumor mill over the last few weeks, I'm starting to think that ARM-based tablets won't be any cheaper than the x86 at all--and may actually be more expensive.
15:15:19  <vpovirk>it's possible that wine will make it possible to run x86 apps that have been recompiled for ARM but are using libraries that are missing from Windows RT
15:15:49  <vpovirk>but I think coapp is the only real hope for making that viable
15:16:39  <FearTheCowboy>With the lack of a complete .NET framework, it's gonna take a frickin' miracle to do that.
15:17:36  <FearTheCowboy>I suspect that the native APIs exist for everything we'd require underneath, but then we'd still have to move to a native service -- and we'd still have to `jailbreak` our way out of the damn WinRT mess.
15:17:41  <FearTheCowboy>*sigh*
15:18:11  <FearTheCowboy>If a magic fairy dropped a few million bux in my lap, I'
15:18:16  <FearTheCowboy>d make a go of it.
15:18:53  <vpovirk>I really want to see this work, but in practice I'll probably conclude it's not worth it and not buy an arm tablet myself
15:20:01  <vpovirk>but hey, we could still use MSVC 11 to port apps to ARM linux :)
15:20:37  <vpovirk>depending on licensing, but so far the restrictions that would prevent that have only been on redistributable libraries
15:22:40  <FearTheCowboy>You know, I really really like working for Microsoft. But someday, someone is gonna have to spend enough to convince me to leave so that I can fix everything that MS is doing wrong. :)
15:22:59  <auroraeosrose>LOL
15:23:11  <auroraeosrose>you don't think they'll just like... get a clue?
15:24:15  <FearTheCowboy>No, not really. And in a lot of cases, it's not in *their* strategic interests.
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16:26:03  <FearTheCowboy>We're at 95 projects in the shallow-fork repository!
16:26:43  <FearTheCowboy>and 80 packages in the 'current' feed.
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16:58:19  <virmitio>I really hate it when updates force a restart of the machine
17:03:41  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, me too.
17:17:21  <bob>i hate it when updates say "You MAY need to restart" as if they don't fucking know their own software.
17:18:37  <bob>also last week there was an update that said "Fixes an issue in Windows" with no KB link, and it was Optional. i am pretty sure that was just an anti-pirating update,.
17:20:22  <auroraeosrose>hehe
17:21:23  <bob>i gave an entire php presentation on windows though auroraeosrose you'd be so proud.
17:26:31  <TReKiE>i bet the "may have to restart" was one of those wonderful phrases that came out of the usability lab (circle the one that makes you feel more confident, etc.)
17:27:36  <virmitio>I'm guessing it's more born out of the developers and lawyers arguing over the wording
17:28:09  * auroraeosrosepats bob on head
17:29:27  <virmitio>after all, none of the lawyers would ever want to commit to saying that you WILL have to restart your computer when the developers insist they have no idea what you're running on said computer that may or may not block completion of updates
17:29:48  <bob>normally my presentations go along the lines of "and here is a windows vm i pirated quick just so i could prove to you im not completely full of shit."
17:30:09  <bob>this time i didn't even have a unix shell open :)
17:30:31  <virmitio>regardless of the truth of that last condition?
17:30:59  <bob>i forgot my mouse though which sucked
17:31:13  <bob>made right clicking > open command window here a bitch
17:46:59  <FearTheCowboy>Sweet mercy, I've finished my yearly perf-self-review. I'm frickin' exhausted.
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18:40:54  <virmitio>vpovirk: you asked the other day what the "right" way to do multiple compilers/platforms is in a .buildinfo file, yes?
18:41:13  <vpovirk>yes
18:41:50  <virmitio>check out the #define and release sections of libssh2
18:42:45  <virmitio>that or something similar is probably what I'm going to start using for the purpose on a regular basis
18:43:46  <vpovirk>didn't we establish that calling ptk recursively to do a build is bad?
18:43:59  <vpovirk>because you end up with nested dev environments
18:44:12  <virmitio>in and of itself, that's not really a problem
18:44:31  <virmitio>that only becomes a problem if no dev environment is defined in a deeper call
18:45:13  <virmitio>which can be resolved by ensuring that all terminal targets declare their environment conditions (compiler, platform, etc.)
18:45:42  <vpovirk>sometimes the outer dev environment can screw up the inner one
18:45:57  <vpovirk>it tends to happen when you mix mingw and msvc
18:46:34  <virmitio>I take it that an outer msvc env will doom an inner mingw env?
18:48:04  <vpovirk>in some cases
18:49:19  <vpovirk>it has to be looking for something from the msvc environment for it to break, really
18:49:55  <vpovirk>which means it's expecting a nested environment
18:50:05  <vpovirk>but then you end up with unreliable builds
18:53:46  <virmitio>hmm
18:54:48  <vpovirk>actually, I would really like to see the default, if you don't specify a compiler or platform, to be no dev environment at all
18:54:51  <virmitio>only real way to not have a nested environment would be to call a mingw ptk target directly from the commandline
18:55:06  <vpovirk>then we wouldn't get nested environments unless we're trying
18:55:42  <vpovirk>also there's always the possibility of a build process that shouldn't require any sdk or compiler
19:03:32  <virmitio>it's probably not going to change for initial release, but I'll keep it in mind when we start specing out the next version of ptk
19:05:27  <vpovirk>well the other way to not have a nested environment is to use uses instead of calling ptk recursively, but that doesn't give you a way to eliminate the compiler requirement
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19:13:47  <HamishC>anyone know what happens if you delete a repo on github thats been forked?
19:14:18  <virmitio>I would presume that it deletes that repo and would have no effect on the forks
19:14:32  <HamishC>ok i hope so
19:16:20  <vpovirk>what happens is you ruin github forever for everyone
19:17:26  <virmitio>sadness
19:17:28  <HamishC>in that case then sorry chaps
19:21:00  <HamishC>ok virmitio i have gifted you gsl, exiv2, libtiff, glut, glew, fftw which should all package except the ones which need libpng cos I dont think you have a x64 png yet?
19:21:29  <vpovirk>that's my fault for not bothering with x64 anything
19:21:43  <virmitio>I... um... thanks?
19:21:55  <virmitio>but HamishC, I didn't get you anything
19:22:16  <HamishC>thats ok im more a giver than a taker
19:23:00  <HamishC>crap gotta go to my real job
19:23:04  <vpovirk>remind me on friday and I'll do an x64 libpng, if no one else gets to it first
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