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13:47:32  <madewokherd>*Please note, in the interests of good security, the pass phrase must be made up of an upper case letter, lower case letter, number and symbol.
13:47:41  <madewokherd>do I REALLY have to use this site?
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13:59:57  <madewokherd>I shouldn't even HAVE a password, and they want me to have six of them?!
14:00:08  <madewokherd>(cacert)
14:06:04  <madewokherd>I can't even tell which box is the security question and which one is the answer
14:06:16  <madewokherd>I'll just have to put random garbage in all of themj
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14:13:13  * madewokherdenters 5 "questions" explaining how security questions suck, and 5 "answers" consisting of random garbage
14:16:01  <madewokherd>FearTheCowboy: are you sure cacert is doing this right?
14:30:33  <FearTheCowboy>lol.. well, their website is abysmal, but they have the CA/Assurer aspect worked out.
14:33:31  <Gunni>what website?
14:35:02  <Gunni>can't we all just ask someone like startssl to do those certs for free?
14:38:32  <madewokherd>seems like the only thing on the website that takes a long time is the location search
14:42:22  * wwahammyjoined
14:43:00  <madewokherd>also one of these people is ~6 blocks away from me
14:44:33  <Gunni>what site?
14:45:03  <madewokherd>cacert.org
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14:45:25  <Gunni>their certs are not trusted and they use md5 for roots last time i checked
14:46:05  <Gunni>yes, signature hash algorithm: md5
14:46:59  <FearTheCowboy>cacert also has SHA1 hashes for their root.
14:47:22  <Gunni>yes on the site, but the root cert is md5
14:48:13  <FearTheCowboy>the class3 root is not.
14:48:15  <virmitio>class 3 is sha1
14:48:19  <Gunni>and using an attack i read a year ago, anyone could create a cert under their CA root
14:48:29  <Gunni>but the class 3 has the class 1 as parent
14:49:10  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, but you don't need trust the Class 1 root.
14:49:19  <Gunni>well, that's true
14:49:34  <FearTheCowboy>if you only trust the class3 root, the fact that the class1 root even exists is null
14:49:55  <Gunni>http://www.networking4all.com/en/support/tools/site+check/md5+algorithm/
14:50:04  <Gunni>that's true
14:50:54  <FearTheCowboy>Yes, MD5 is not sufficent, which is why they've moved away from that.
14:53:41  <madewokherd>fosdem will have people who can do this, right?
14:55:00  <madewokherd>but I'd have to wait until 2013
14:55:05  <Gunni>And here's a paper demonstrating a technique for finding MD5 collisions quickly: eight hours on 1.6 GHz computer.
14:55:09  <Gunni>http://cryptography.hyperlink.cz/md5/MD5_collisions.pdf
14:55:27  <Gunni>it's that bad
14:55:43  <madewokherd>wow, that's not as bad as I thought
14:55:57  <Gunni>you thought it was worse?
14:55:58  <FearTheCowboy>Again, so? We're not using MD5-based certificates
14:56:25  <madewokherd>I assumed it would take minutes
14:56:41  <madewokherd>not that it matters
14:57:21  <Gunni>"In the last experiment, provided by Ondřej Pokorný on his home PC (Intel Pentium, 1GHz), he obtained 14 collisions in 58 hours and 32 minutes. It gives even more optimistic time for finding a collision (1 collision per 4 hours 11 minutes) than on the author´s notebook."
14:58:28  <Gunni>aaanyways, how's coapp doing FearTheCowboy?
14:58:40  <Gunni>i've been moving, so i haven't been watching
14:59:18  <FearTheCowboy>It's going very well; we're just in the middle of getting the new packages rebuilt, the update UI is looking pretty nice...
14:59:40  <Gunni>nice
15:00:08  <Gunni>btw, why is the response time on the cli so slow. I type coapp --help and it takes like 2-3 seconds
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15:00:34  <FearTheCowboy>hm. it isn't for me.
15:00:51  <FearTheCowboy>it does have to start the service if it's not been used for ~5 minutes or so.
15:01:16  <Gunni>i'm doing repeated runs
15:01:28  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. I dunno, slow computer :)
15:01:30  <FearTheCowboy>?
15:01:35  <Gunni>not by a long shot
15:01:36  <FearTheCowboy>what version?
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15:03:24  <Gunni>
15:03:49  <FearTheCowboy>run : coapp install http://coapp.org/install
15:04:06  <Gunni>lol @ coapp update
15:04:14  <FearTheCowboy>the new one has update
15:04:22  <FearTheCowboy>the older versions don't have that working
15:04:25  <Gunni>sweet
15:04:57  <Gunni>btw just saying, can't the cli begin to respond/load/display stuff before the service responds?
15:05:14  <Gunni>so it "seems" quicker ;D
15:05:30  <FearTheCowboy>I'm not sure that's the source of your slowdown
15:05:58  <FearTheCowboy>And, if you want to spend the time to profile where it's slowing down, I'd be more than happy to accept the patch
15:05:59  <Gunni>well i have ~20 GB of ram empty, and no load on the cpu (3ghz i7)
15:06:03  * Jonny5quit (Client Quit)
15:06:23  <FearTheCowboy>it's instantaneous for me.
15:06:27  <virmitio>I have no such issue on any of my machines, and there's a few of them that I'd be hard pressed to not call slow
15:06:37  <Gunni>we'll see after it updates, still updating
15:08:26  <Gunni>the cli really should be more verbose, like linux pakage managers do sometimes
15:08:43  <virmitio>in what way?
15:08:44  <Gunni>now f.ex, the progress bar is full, but nothing is happening
15:09:08  <FearTheCowboy>Well, that sounds like a bug.
15:09:27  <virmitio>hit ctrl-c, it's likely done and failed to return properly
15:12:18  <Gunni>i downloaded it and it's running the cleaner nwo
15:12:21  <Gunni>taking forever
15:12:36  <Gunni>now*
15:13:54  <virmitio>not surprised, it has a lot of conditions it needs to check for and clean up before it can continue
15:14:09  <Gunni>but, removing dead links
15:14:15  <Gunni>for ~5 minutes?
15:14:21  <virmitio>yep
15:14:23  <virmitio>be patient
15:14:25  <Gunni>ah it just completed with an error lol
15:14:35  <virmitio>what's the error?
15:14:41  <Gunni>system.serviceprocess.servicecontroller.start....
15:15:47  <virmitio>continue through the error
15:16:04  <Gunni>continue?
15:16:07  <virmitio>if it bails out of the install, run the installer again
15:16:16  <Gunni>it stopped, it cannot continue
15:17:08  <virmitio>close the error and run the installer again
15:17:16  <FearTheCowboy>Do you have the services MMC window open?
15:17:20  <Gunni>nop
15:18:04  <Gunni>when i run the installer now it gives me a "one or more errors occurred"
15:18:13  <Gunni>at system.threading.tasks.task.wait
15:21:28  <Gunni>yop, coapp is nolonger installed and the installer won't launch
15:21:39  <Gunni>oh the joy
15:21:54  <virmitio>k, run dbgview (\\live.sysinternals.com\Tools\dbgview.exe)
15:22:30  <Gunni>done
15:22:51  <virmitio>in the "Capture" menu, enable "Capture Global Win32"
15:22:55  <Gunni>k
15:23:49  <Gunni>and then just capture and repeat my steps?
15:23:50  <Gunni>right
15:23:53  <FearTheCowboy>(run as elevated admin!)
15:23:56  <Gunni>i did
15:23:58  <virmitio>make sure that it's capturing events (Capture --> Capture Events)
15:24:10  <virmitio>then yes, run the installer
15:24:12  <FearTheCowboy>and before you re-run it
15:24:14  <Gunni>ah
15:24:15  <Gunni>there
15:24:23  <FearTheCowboy>go to the task manager and kill any MSI****.tmp tasks
15:24:34  <Gunni>http://codepad.org/yp3Suesy
15:25:08  <Gunni>hm, k
15:25:24  <FearTheCowboy>ok, two things.
15:26:17  <FearTheCowboy>is that C:\Users\Gunni\Downloads\coapp.msi the one you just downloaded ? (are you *sure*) ?
15:26:21  <Gunni>yes
15:26:25  <FearTheCowboy>hmmm.
15:26:30  <Gunni>i click it in chrome downloads
15:26:49  <FearTheCowboy>it looks like it's got itself in a very strange state.
15:27:01  <Gunni>yep
15:27:10  <FearTheCowboy>grab the cleaner seperately (http://coapp.org/cleaner)
15:27:11  <FearTheCowboy>and run it
15:27:38  <FearTheCowboy>then we'll trace it again when you run the installer after that.
15:28:10  <Gunni>well, cleaner ran and now the installer doesn't instantly crash
15:28:19  <Gunni>yop worked
15:28:38  <Gunni>installer for coapp is still as "confusing" as i previously mentioned
15:29:17  <FearTheCowboy>Well, and as I previously mentioned, people won't be running *that* directly anyway.
15:29:19  <virmitio>we'll fix that eventually, but it's not a primary concern right now
15:29:34  <Gunni>hehe
15:29:50  <FearTheCowboy>really, you'll be running the MSI that you actually want, not the core engine, as the engine doens't do much of anything directly.
15:30:53  <FearTheCowboy>Even if you want to start with the CoApp UI, that's in a seperate package, and it would look right.
15:31:18  <Gunni>true
15:31:34  * madewokherddoes coapp update; coapp upgrade; coapp trim
15:31:38  <Gunni>but having coapp install automatically when just opening an installer is dubious isn't it?
15:32:01  <virmitio>why?
15:32:03  <FearTheCowboy>but... it *is* the installer
15:32:21  <FearTheCowboy>it's just setting up the bits so the installer can run.
15:32:24  <virmitio>it's not any worse than any other installer in the wild, and ours is generally less obtrusive
15:32:35  <Gunni>yeah i know but if i open an installer for x and it installs y and then y asks if i want to install x, i say no, y is still installed
15:32:37  <FearTheCowboy>Many, *many* installers does that.
15:33:14  <madewokherd>when coapp takes over the world you'll have to have y installed anyway ;)
15:33:19  <Gunni>lol
15:33:40  <Gunni>well that's true, just dubious, like all those installers out there
15:33:49  <madewokherd>so when I did coapp trim
15:33:57  <FearTheCowboy>If you have a better solution, I'm all ears.
15:34:05  <madewokherd>it removed an old zlib[vc10]
15:34:08  <Gunni>the ones i've made always clean up after themselves and only use temp folders
15:34:16  <madewokherd>and then said "Successfully removed 6 packages"
15:34:23  <FearTheCowboy>And they don't do a million things
15:34:26  <madewokherd>so either it's not showing me all 6, or that message is inaccurate
15:34:39  <FearTheCowboy>madewokherd -> it's not putting CRLFs between the msgs
15:34:52  <FearTheCowboy>it's removing them and showing the progress on a asingle line
15:34:55  <madewokherd>ah
15:35:37  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I had it remove like 30pkgs in a few seconds... I thought it wasn't working at all, but it turned out to be just snappy :)
15:36:37  <madewokherd>now it just needs to start nagging me about the updates, and it'll be a real package manager ;)
15:36:55  <FearTheCowboy>Gunni -> We could have made it put the whole coapp runtime in every package, so that it didn't have to install anything, but it would have bulked up packages by a megabyte, and been a hell of a lot slower
15:37:13  <Gunni>hehehe
15:37:26  <Gunni>have it auto pull it from the server?
15:37:37  <FearTheCowboy>The price for admission, is that it works my way.
15:37:39  <Gunni>plus, always the latest version is included
15:38:16  <virmitio>Gunni: but that would make offline installs impossible
15:38:32  <Gunni>include coapp runtime for offline installers?
15:38:34  <FearTheCowboy>well, it pulls it from the server now. But, if it wasn't installed, it would have to know what it's doing, which means putting the whole thing in the bootstrapper
15:38:45  <Gunni>i'm just kidding, it's awesome that this is here and working
15:39:38  <FearTheCowboy>madewokherd -> I'm testing the UI that bugs you to update right now.
15:41:11  <madewokherd>well, you could make a directory full of installers if you want something that works offline, couldn't you?
15:41:18  <FearTheCowboy>yep
15:41:27  <FearTheCowboy>it'll probe locally first anywway
15:41:46  <madewokherd>someone could write a tool that traverses the dependency tree to generate it
15:42:18  <Gunni>aren't dependencies solved automatically?
15:42:47  <virmitio>yes and no
15:42:47  <madewokherd>they are, but you have to get them from somewhere
15:42:53  <FearTheCowboy>Yes, but if you want to do offline installs, you'd need ot have the files available
15:43:23  <Gunni>apt solves this very nicely
15:43:43  <madewokherd>how so?
15:43:52  <Gunni>i can simply point it to a mirror locally and if a package isn't there it tries other places it can
15:44:02  <FearTheCowboy>coapp does that too.
15:44:21  <FearTheCowboy>but if you want to install something OFFLINE, you'll have to bring your dependencies with you
15:44:30  <Gunni>that's what i meant
15:45:04  <Gunni>oh great, now my prompt is red
15:45:06  <Gunni>lol
15:45:27  <virmitio>what were you trying to do when it died?
15:45:48  <Gunni>coapp install zlib
15:45:59  <wwahammy>ya I've noticed that bug
15:46:06  <wwahammy>it doesn't set the color back to white in some cases
15:46:10  <Gunni>yep
15:46:26  <Gunni>Error: Exception of type 'CoApp.Packaging.Common.Exceptions.FailedPackageRemoveException' was thrown.
15:46:40  <Gunni>make the exception handler run a reset method?
15:47:14  <FearTheCowboy>it's not going to spew exceptions when it's done, obviously.
15:47:33  <Gunni>well, why not, saying what's wrong ofcourse
15:47:41  <virmitio>what's the actual command line you used?
15:47:47  <Gunni>coapp install zlib
15:55:46  <virmitio>Gunni: try as I might, I can't reproduce your issue
15:56:06  <Gunni>hm
15:56:13  <Gunni>might be -p on the end?
15:57:30  <virmitio>ok, lets back up a few steps
15:57:42  <virmitio>what's the version you're running?
15:57:56  <Gunni>latest and greatest
15:58:05  <virmitio>and what were you trying to do (not the command, but what effect were you looking for?)
15:58:18  <Gunni>just testing random pakages tbh
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16:00:22  <madewokherd>so if I want a package built, do I just need to set up auto-increment like zlib, and push to CoApp branch?
16:00:36  <virmitio>nope, no idea how you managed to produce that error
16:00:44  <Gunni>oh well
16:01:36  <virmitio>pretty much
16:01:48  <virmitio>actually
16:01:58  <madewokherd>I see zlib increments before building..
16:02:28  <virmitio>you'll also want to set a post-receive hook on your repo
16:02:36  <virmitio>again, zlib is a valid reference
16:02:55  <madewokherd>I will? for what?
16:02:56  <virmitio>and yeah, it increments before packing into msi files
16:03:08  <virmitio>so autobuild will pick up the changes
16:03:20  <virmitio>it's me trying to be efficient/lazy
16:04:22  <madewokherd>er, I can't set a hook that applies to anything except my local copy of the repo?
16:04:43  <virmitio>ah, silly me
16:04:53  <virmitio>let me know which repo and I'll set up the hook
16:05:27  <FearTheCowboy>#CoApp Weekly Conf Call 10:30 PDT (90mins from now) Connect w/Lync Attendee http://t.co/9jkXNIZU to http://t.co/Xt87bzfj Join Anytime
16:08:53  <Gunni>lol
16:09:02  <Gunni>i'm totally an evil genius
16:20:46  * FearTheCowboywonders if ender` is gonna come to the meeting ;)
16:24:26  <ender`>maybe
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19:49:13  <virmitio>madewokherd: gettext completed and the packages are posted
19:49:40  <madewokherd>cool
19:51:09  <madewokherd>I've made a CoApp branch for libffi and I'm ready to push to that
19:51:26  <madewokherd>wait maybe I only created that branch locally
19:52:14  <madewokherd>ok, now CoApp branch is pushed but isn't the latest
19:52:26  <virmitio>hook set
19:53:05  <madewokherd>why did I choose such a stupid display name for libintl?
19:55:29  <virmitio>no idea
19:55:59  <virmitio>libffi died
19:56:37  <virmitio>no "common.inc" found
19:56:44  <madewokherd>doh
19:57:37  <madewokherd>updated
19:59:24  <virmitio>done and posted
20:02:21  <madewokherd>is ptk supposed to auto-install build dependencies?
20:03:12  <virmitio>if you list the dependency, then yes, it will get autoinstalled when building
20:03:43  <madewokherd>do I need to be administrator?
20:05:55  <madewokherd>apparently yes
20:13:56  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, pTk doesn't yet use the elevation stuff.
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20:16:17  <madewokherd>virmitio: got a push ready for glib
20:16:45  <virmitio>hook set
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20:54:11  <madewokherd>virmitio: ready to push to libpng/CoApp
20:59:11  <virmitio>hook set
21:00:48  <madewokherd>any preference as to how many of these I queue up at once?
21:01:25  <virmitio>not really, just let me know what to set hooks for. it'll build when you push
21:02:14  <madewokherd>is glib really still going?
21:11:16  <virmitio>is on its second run, the first halted for no apparent reason
21:16:08  <madewokherd>ok, well I've got mpir ready
21:20:35  <virmitio>hook set for mpir, glib completed and posted
21:20:49  <virmitio>did you ever push for libpng?
21:20:55  <madewokherd>I thought I did
21:21:15  <virmitio>I'll start it manually, then
21:21:19  <madewokherd>unless I screwed up and only did one push
21:24:44  <madewokherd>I wish https://twitter.com/#!/CoappPackages were still up..
21:28:01  * virmitiohas an issue with a newer version of AutoBuild
21:28:15  <virmitio>stand by while I get a bigger hammer
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21:44:38  <madewokherd>hmm
21:45:16  <madewokherd>I've got a build requirement on glib
21:45:25  <madewokherd>apparently that isn't satisfied by
21:45:50  <virmitio>check the compat policy on the glib fork?
21:47:05  <madewokherd>minimum, maximum ${OneLessThanCurrent}
21:47:22  <madewokherd>versions: { "" }
21:47:38  <madewokherd>I should probably replace that with just 2.32
21:47:45  <virmitio>probably
21:47:52  <madewokherd>but I don't think it'll help
21:47:56  <virmitio>don't push that up yet, though
21:49:36  <madewokherd>I would've just pushed it to master; doesn't seem worth a rebuild
22:13:01  <ender`>does anybody know of any good USB drives - my requirement is that i can sit on it without damaging it, so it should have a metal case and retractable connector. i have a Sandisk Cruzer Controur, but 32GB is becoming too small, and they don't seem to make anything similar anymore
22:16:10  <Gunni>yes
22:17:48  <Gunni>LaCie XtremKey USB Flash Drive
22:17:58  <Gunni>your ass cannot break that one
22:18:30  <ender`>this is what i have currently: http://cdn.ubergizmo.com/photos/2007/5/sandisk-contour-8gb.jpg
22:19:23  <ender`>oh, i forgot to mention: i don't want anything that has a separate cover
22:20:39  <ender`>(and xtremkey seems to only be available in 32GB)
22:20:58  <Gunni>yes
22:21:20  <Gunni>well true, but is bigger really needed when you have two?