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16:15:00  <wwahammy>Is FearTheCowboy no longer among the living?
16:16:40  <virmitio>I haven't seen or heard from him yet today
16:17:00  <virmitio>I'm going to venture a guess that he's fallen ill and trying to recover enough to keep working
16:19:36  <vpovirk>he tweeted about that today
16:23:10  <wwahammy>ya, I just figured he would be online by now... must be really sick
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17:48:58  <ender`>http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/hh670538.aspx
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19:27:14  <virmitio>got a friend looking for a book/online tutorial/something for learning C, preferably with some actual project that is built in the process to prove that one can actually do something. any bright ideas?
19:27:38  <virmitio>it's important to note that it's C he needs, not C++
19:28:04  <auroraeosrose>want to work on existing or new project? stand alone app or library? operating system specific?
19:29:33  <virmitio>end intent is to be vaguely competent to write for embedded microcontrollers, presumably as stand-alone software
19:29:49  <auroraeosrose>ahhh - that may be more difficult
19:29:58  <auroraeosrose>I do have a friend who does microcontroller stuff
19:30:09  <auroraeosrose>I can possibly hook him up with - other then that , no clue
19:30:13  <virmitio>a general-purpose learning tool would likely be sufficient to get him started
19:30:21  <auroraeosrose>app, library, and embedded systems are sooo different
19:30:28  <virmitio>granted
19:30:52  <auroraeosrose>he can try getting in with hobbyist folks
19:31:31  <auroraeosrose>http://projects.cyberspice.org.uk/ - this is my friend who does it for a living and plays with stuff too ;)
19:31:36  <virmitio>Hadn't actually thought about that, but will mention it to him. I think he's going to hop onto freenode in a minute, if you'd be willing to point him somwhere?
19:31:57  <virmitio>k, I'll forward him to it
19:32:24  <auroraeosrose>but there's a large hobbyist group who makes interesting things ;)
19:32:28  <auroraeosrose>that would be the club to get with
19:32:37  <auroraeosrose>and finding a mentor in that space would be far more effective then a book
19:32:58  <virmitio>noted
19:33:50  <ender`>ported this today from (ba)sh: http://eternallybored.org/misc/openvpn/EasyRSA-2.0rc1-Win/pkitool.cmd
19:34:16  <auroraeosrose>also - if he doesn't have K & R that's always the place to start virmitio ;)
19:34:44  <auroraeosrose>heh ender
19:36:50  <ender`>did you know that there's no and, or and elsif in cmd? :)
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19:37:17  <virmitio>ender`: yes, yes I did
19:38:11  <virmitio>CptBuck25 is the friend in question I was asking for earlier
19:38:18  <ender`>and the error messages when you forget a quote, or when a variable expands to nothing when you don't expect it are less than helpful
19:38:22  * CptBuck25waves
19:39:51  <virmitio>ender`: of course they are, it keeps parsing through until something doesn't make sense to it. Windows batch scripting makes the grand assumption that the script writer is infallible in their typing.
19:40:24  <virmitio>the joys of a "dumb" language
19:43:22  <ender`>btw, is there any way to set a variable to empty value in cmd?
19:43:55  <virmitio>if you're sneaky, you can set it to just a space, but not an empty string that I'm aware of
19:44:14  <ender`>i know space
19:44:18  <virmitio>declaring a set statement without a value unsets the variable
19:45:24  <ender`>yeah. i tried various things (like set /p foo=<nul), but couldn't trick it into setting a valueless variable
19:48:01  <virmitio>if you're needing to test for empty, you can do something like: if "%myvar%" == "" ( do stuff here )
19:48:29  <ender`>if defined myvar is safer
19:48:31  <virmitio>if myvar isn't set, that conditional will result true
19:48:41  <virmitio>just depends on your needs
19:50:02  <ender`>if "%myvar%"=="" will explode if myvar contains quotes
19:50:43  <virmitio>true
19:51:05  <virmitio>the comparisons also sometimes do strange things with non-printable characters
19:52:01  <ender`>if defined myvar also works in if blocks without delayexpansion
19:54:57  <virmitio>good to know
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19:55:48  <virmitio>as a side note, delayedexpansion only seems to work properly for the first three layers of for loops. deeper loops start dying horribly
19:56:02  <ender`>another not fun thing i had was for /F "usebackq tokens=1" %%d in (`"%EASY_RSA%\whichopensslcnf.cmd"`) do set KEY_CONFIG=%%d sometimes failing when i tried passing parameters to the script
19:56:54  * virmitioblinks
19:57:36  <ender`>(`"%EASY_RSA%\whichopensslcnf.cmd" "%EASY_RSA%"`) randomly failed
19:57:38  <virmitio>no sure why it would
19:58:25  <virmitio>unless there's a spot in the .cmd script that doesn't properly handle spaces in the input to the script
19:58:58  <virmitio>or I guess it could be fouled if there are quotes or backticks in %EASY_RSA%
19:59:01  <ender`>no, the script didn't run at all - cmd complained about bad syntax
19:59:31  <ender`>the weird thing is, putting "%EASY_RSA%\whichopensslcnf.cmd" "%EASY_RSA%" just above the for made it work
19:59:52  * virmitioblinks
20:00:08  <virmitio>yep, I'll agree, that sounds pretty odd
20:00:47  <ender`>here's the script it's calling: http://eternallybored.org/misc/openvpn/EasyRSA-2.0rc1-Win/whichopensslcnf.cmd
20:01:21  <ender`>(though it originally didn't have %CNFDIR% and just used %~1 everywhere
20:05:52  <ender`>oh, and another fun thing is %ProgramFiles(x86)% - try using it from inside if ( ... ) block :)
20:07:27  <virmitio>yeah, I still think there was an unfortunate deficiency of forethought that went into some of the directory and env variable changes for x64 windows
20:09:16  <ender`>i'm specifically using %ProgramFiles(x86)% because OpenVPN is (currently) 32bit, but the scripts may be run from 64bit cmd
21:03:41  <CptBuck25>-ping-
21:07:23  <ender`>-pong-
21:07:40  <wwahammy>I'm able to create a CoApp.Updater package... weee :)
21:08:05  <CptBuck25>thanks, ender`
21:08:25  <CptBuck25>having some funny network issues...
21:10:06  <virmitio>wwahammy: awesome
21:11:22  <wwahammy>ya, it's looking pretty slick
21:11:29  <ender`>oh, win8 rc is available, too
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21:20:10  <virmitio>yep
21:23:16  <ender`>let's see what happens if i run the setup in my remote VM :)
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22:33:02  <ender`>OH NO, IT'S STILL THERE: http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-visual-studio-2012-release-candidate-launched
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