00:13:30  <madewokherd>https://twitter.com/CoAppPackages/status/205812860436230144 <-- eh?
00:20:44  <FearTheCowboy>testing the new repo service
00:20:59  <FearTheCowboy>forgot to turn of the tweets
00:25:19  <auroraeosrose>hehe
00:25:30  <auroraeosrose>progress then?
00:32:58  <FearTheCowboy>reaaly close to having the repo up.
00:33:08  <FearTheCowboy>tomorrow is package-building-day for sure.
00:33:38  <FearTheCowboy>I'm gonna try and get faux-packages done early enough tomorrow so we can make some packages for the sysinternals stuff.
00:33:45  <FearTheCowboy>those are gonna be eaaaasy.
00:35:31  <FearTheCowboy>w00t. I've passed auroraeosrose on mojolive
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00:41:40  <auroraeosrose>hehe
00:41:46  <auroraeosrose>FearTheCowboy: half my stuff isn't on yet ;)
00:41:55  <FearTheCowboy>neither is mine.
00:42:18  <auroraeosrose>you have all your caps yet? hehe
00:42:19  <FearTheCowboy>I really don't have the time to enter everything. maybe one day when I'm watchin' TV I'll poke at it while I'm on the laptop
00:42:25  <auroraeosrose>LOL
00:42:28  <auroraeosrose>yeah, that's how I am too
00:42:36  <auroraeosrose>actually I've been adding stuff while I'm bug whacking
00:42:44  <auroraeosrose>"If I put this in I can use it to test this bug"
00:42:48  <auroraeosrose>seems to be working LOL
00:42:56  <FearTheCowboy>what would be nice is to click on other peopels skills and say "I do this too"
00:43:03  <FearTheCowboy>rather than hand-entering everything.
00:43:13  <auroraeosrose>yeah - part of that is the suggestions stuff coming
00:43:59  <auroraeosrose>HAHA - followed by 69 people
00:44:03  <auroraeosrose>man, that should be a cap for that
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00:45:51  <auroraeosrose>must... get... stuff ... built
00:46:22  <auroraeosrose>trying to pack up my kids too
00:46:23  <auroraeosrose>oy
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02:57:38  <piscisaureus_>hi windows people
02:57:40  <piscisaureus_>subst :: c:\
02:57:50  <piscisaureus_>chdir /d ::\windows
02:57:51  <piscisaureus_>dir
02:58:00  <piscisaureus_>WTFBBQ!
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03:39:13  <FearTheCowboy>piscisaureus_ -> that's so not right.
03:39:38  <piscisaureus_>I wonder why it is there in the first place
03:40:43  <piscisaureus_>I think I am going to use (: from now on
03:46:36  <piscisaureus_>i have to go - until next time
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07:03:13  <ender|><piscisaureus_> subst :: c:\ <-- yup, drive letters were never limited to ... well, just letters. you can use almost every character (including stuff like ☺)
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13:17:36  <madewokherd>suppose B depends on A, and C depends on B
13:17:47  <madewokherd>A gets an incompatible update
13:18:11  <madewokherd>B's dependency on A is updated to the new (incompatible) version
13:18:30  <madewokherd>if C also uses A, this is an incompatible update for B
13:19:04  <madewokherd>or rather, it's an incompatible update if B's ABI involves using A
13:20:42  <madewokherd>so we need to be really careful about compatibility
13:22:33  <auroraeosrose>if A's update is incompatible we'll have to hold onto the old compatible version until all the deps say we don't need it anymore - side by side
13:23:27  <madewokherd>of course, but for that to work we need correct compatibility policies
13:23:45  <auroraeosrose>that's going to be in part up to the packagers not to be stupid
13:24:01  <madewokherd>they will, because this is hard
13:24:09  <madewokherd>eventually we'll need tools that check this stuff
13:24:24  <auroraeosrose>well - that's part of the packager gui stuff yes?
13:24:29  <auroraeosrose>the mythical stuff ;)
13:24:36  <madewokherd>I think it's an autopackage thing
13:25:05  <madewokherd>autopackage should look for incompatible dependency updates and fail if the .autopkg doesn't explicitly say it's ok
13:25:44  <madewokherd>which means examining all the old versions of the package being built, but it has to do that anyway I think..
13:26:52  <auroraeosrose>yeah - that should be probably part of hte packing gui and/or ptk rewrite
13:27:13  <madewokherd>well, it's a post-1.0 thing
13:27:23  <madewokherd>and we should have export checking first
13:27:35  <auroraeosrose>yeah
13:27:37  <madewokherd>I wonder if there's a thing you can give two .NET dll's that'll check for breaking changes
13:27:42  <madewokherd>if not, I may want to write one
13:33:38  <madewokherd>this also means we'll end up with 0.0.0.x updates that are breaking changes
13:34:13  <auroraeosrose>better not be
13:34:19  <auroraeosrose>or we'll just renumber ;)
13:34:34  <madewokherd>why not?
13:34:47  <madewokherd>(I just pushed one)
13:37:10  <madewokherd>I think maybe compat.inc should be merged into version.inc so we think about it whenever we increment the version
13:37:26  <auroraeosrose>you know, that might be smart
13:37:37  <auroraeosrose>we'll bug tim about it when he gets back
13:37:43  <auroraeosrose>he owes me packaging help too ;)
13:38:56  <madewokherd>(I've been putting dep versions and public key tokens in there)
13:39:58  <auroraeosrose>awesome
13:40:03  <auroraeosrose>so how is the gtk stack going?
13:40:33  <auroraeosrose>yeah, that actually looks like a good idea
13:40:36  <madewokherd>still working on pango, then I have gdk-pixbuf and gtk itself
13:40:38  <auroraeosrose>keeping versions, compat, and deps all together
13:40:44  <auroraeosrose>awesomesauce
13:41:04  <madewokherd>(had to update glib for pango to build, when atk was already built, which is where the discussion about updates came from)
13:41:33  <auroraeosrose>ah, fun
13:41:38  <auroraeosrose>glib has gio too?
13:41:44  <auroraeosrose>guess I should take a look eh?
13:42:13  <madewokherd>it does
13:42:37  <madewokherd>let's see if pango builds this time
13:42:56  <madewokherd>nope
13:43:12  <auroraeosrose>pango needs freetype2 and font-config last I checked
13:43:17  <auroraeosrose>(ewww)
13:43:19  <madewokherd>
13:43:32  <auroraeosrose>LOL
13:43:38  <madewokherd>oh wait I used the wrong configuration
13:43:43  <auroraeosrose>ahhh
13:44:00  <madewokherd>namely, the one that needs freetype2
13:44:08  <auroraeosrose>that's all the client side font stuff
13:44:20  <auroraeosrose>can you turn that off and still have gtk build?
13:44:23  <madewokherd>well maybe they all so; I have to check
13:44:25  <madewokherd>*do
13:44:39  <madewokherd>if so, setbacks
13:45:29  <auroraeosrose>freetype2 should build well
13:45:35  <auroraeosrose>it's not insane
13:45:40  <auroraeosrose>font-config is the one that may be pain
13:45:41  <madewokherd>no, it doesn't seem like it should need that
13:45:52  <madewokherd>something odd is going on here
13:48:50  <madewokherd>one of the projects depends on a project that's not in the solution
13:48:55  <madewokherd>and doesn't have the right configurations
13:49:33  <auroraeosrose>oh nice
13:49:47  <auroraeosrose>although if you're using the project files they're often out of date
13:50:02  <auroraeosrose>ah, should build a tool that takes autotools files and builds project files from them ;)
13:50:03  * auroraeosrosegiggles
13:52:19  <madewokherd>wow this is borked
13:52:46  <auroraeosrose>yeah.... out of date files I"m sure
13:52:47  * auroraeosrosesighs
13:53:11  <madewokherd>I don't think so
13:53:23  <madewokherd>you'd have to have updated some files but not others
13:53:35  <auroraeosrose>exactly what probably happened
13:53:56  <madewokherd>well, easiest thing is to remove the freetype stuff
13:54:21  <auroraeosrose>doesn't that make a bunch of stuff not work though?
13:54:27  <auroraeosrose>I thought it was using freetype for a bunch of stuff
13:54:38  <madewokherd>I'll worry about that when I see it
13:54:45  <madewokherd>gtk-demo will be the first opportunity
13:56:46  <madewokherd>oh hey, it modified some tracked files
13:57:28  * madewokherddeletes
13:57:38  <auroraeosrose>LOL
14:01:12  <madewokherd>uh oh, it's using g_win32_get_package_installation_directory_of_module
14:02:38  <auroraeosrose>frack
14:02:49  <auroraeosrose>we need garretts "control the world" loader
14:03:01  <madewokherd>not necessarily
14:04:29  <madewokherd>it's looking for /etc/pango/pango.conf; we can just put that in the assembly with the dll
14:04:52  <auroraeosrose>yeah, that's probably a better solution anyway
14:05:13  <madewokherd>I just have to make sure the function works that way
14:05:24  <madewokherd>and patch it to not look in subdirs
14:06:27  <madewokherd>yep, I think this checks out
14:06:54  <madewokherd>it's also looking for /lib/pango
14:07:23  <madewokherd>in theory that means we want the plugin system but for now putting it all in an assembly is good enough, I think
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14:10:45  <madewokherd>good thing the directories it actually wants are flat
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14:25:57  <madewokherd>ok I'm really confused now
14:31:20  <madewokherd>ah, pango doesn't include any modules that it needs to find dynamically
14:31:28  <madewokherd>so I can ignore that for now
14:32:07  <madewokherd>also, it looks like the freetype component is completely optional; it's just a question of whether other things use the freetype api's
14:32:26  <madewokherd>if they do, I need it, but pango won't use it otherwise
14:33:03  <auroraeosrose>cool, although I'm pretty sure gtk uses them ;0
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14:44:45  <madewokherd>should I package pangocairo separately?
14:45:03  <madewokherd>it's a separate dll, but I'm worried it could rely on the exact version of pango
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15:07:47  <auroraeosrose>virmitio: POUNCE
15:07:57  <auroraeosrose>madewokherd: had a good idea about compat and version and dep info
15:08:00  * virmitiodives for cover
15:08:09  <auroraeosrose>no, not like that
15:08:14  <auroraeosrose>should be all together
15:08:20  <auroraeosrose>instead of separate includes
15:08:32  <auroraeosrose>when you bump the version you better be double checking deps and compat info anyway
15:08:36  <auroraeosrose>makes sense that way
15:09:50  <virmitio>my only issue with including the deps in the same include file is that deps may differ between, for example, the end-user assembly and the dev libraries
15:10:16  <virmitio>or between those and the dev-common package
15:10:41  <virmitio>version and compat info in same file sounds fine to me though
15:10:50  <madewokherd>well, we need dep versions/publickeytokens anyway in various places
15:11:07  <madewokherd>this just ensures we're not duplicating it
15:11:20  <madewokherd>and often reving a dep means we have to break compatibility
15:14:01  <madewokherd>ideally we'd set up the build somehow so we're using the versions we expect, or compatible updates, to build
15:14:14  <madewokherd>but I can't think of a way to do that
15:45:22  <auroraeosrose>sooo - what's the absolute bare minimum you install on a new windows box (curious)
15:46:34  <virmitio>clarification: myself personally, for a test machine, for an arbitrary box I expect someone else to use, or someone else?
15:46:56  <auroraeosrose>generalize - but both?
15:47:06  <auroraeosrose>7-zip is absolutely necessary for me, for example
15:47:51  <madewokherd>7zip and firefox
15:48:04  <madewokherd>if I'm going to do work: winscp, git, and notepad++
15:48:32  <virmitio>7zip, notepad++, and current powershell
15:48:39  <virmitio>and putty
15:48:42  <auroraeosrose>console and putty?
15:49:44  <virmitio>from those 4 things and a command prompt, I can generally accomplish anything I actually care about on a new system
15:50:42  <virmitio>although, angband is generally also among the first things I put on any of my personal systems, which somewhat precludes getting any real work done
16:00:13  <wwahammy>I found a bug... weeeee
16:01:24  <auroraeosrose>virmitio: LOL - yeah I'm trying to build my own base windows vm, just wanted some opinions
16:01:27  <virmitio>wwahammy: well, caring for any pet is a big responsibility. it's yours now, so make sure you take care of it properly
16:02:43  <virmitio>I also generally throw process explorer and SIW on most of my machines for general info and troubleshooting purposes, but I don't know how badly you'd need them in a base vm
16:02:43  <wwahammy>true true
16:42:29  <madewokherd>I'm getting kinda bored of this stuff now :/
16:45:51  <auroraeosrose>awwww
16:45:58  <auroraeosrose>still not working?
16:46:14  <madewokherd>no, I've moved on to gdk-pixbuf
16:46:29  <madewokherd>which is also going to need plugins eventually
16:46:37  <virmitio>madewokherd: I'm hoping it will be slightly less boring for you when we have official packages back up
16:47:00  <madewokherd>working in isolation does simplify things
16:48:43  <madewokherd>it's better than not being able to do anything
16:48:54  <auroraeosrose>yeah
16:49:04  <auroraeosrose>virmitio: how is rebuild the world going? are we stable enough for that?
16:49:57  <virmitio>is it necessary for me to be stable before the build system is?
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16:52:39  <GarrettS-MSFT>auroraeosrose -> I'm just deploying new bits to the server
16:53:06  <GarrettS-MSFT>as soon as the new repository service is up, we should be able to actually run builds and upload packages
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17:29:40  <FearTheCowboy>#CoApp Weekly Conf Call 10:30 PDT (uh, now). Connect w/Lync Attendee http://j.mp/Iaim61 to http://j.mp/qdy0i6 Join Anytime
17:30:45  <auroraeosrose>heh, I have to leave at 2:00 EST (half an hour)
17:31:10  <virmitio>auroraeosrose: whyfor abandon you us?
17:31:22  <auroraeosrose>I have to drive my kids to chicago and put them on a plane
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23:14:28  <madewokherd>got gtk-demo working :)
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23:39:44  <madewokherd>except it can't find its files if it's called from a symlink from ProgramData\bin
23:40:03  <madewokherd>apparently GetModuleFilename(NULL) doesn't work the way some people thought it does