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00:11:40  <FearTheCowboy>New Interim Build
00:11:40  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp-
00:11:40  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp.devtools-
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01:41:36  <FearTheCowboy>auroraeosrose -> how come I can't import into mojo from Ohloh?
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11:14:42  <ender|>oops: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/24/yahoo_ships_private_certificate_by_accident/
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14:51:02  <wwahammy>what's the latest test versions?
14:52:01  <auroraeosrose>that yahoo think is hilarious
14:53:59  <wwahammy>that they shipped their private key?
14:54:21  <auroraeosrose>no - their response! let's ship a new version of the extension without the private key!
14:54:28  <auroraeosrose>cause... you know... that fixes everything
14:54:31  * auroraeosrosesnortles on floor
14:54:36  <wwahammy>are you fucking kidding me?
14:55:31  <auroraeosrose>http://techdows.com/2012/05/yahoo-releases-new-chrome-extension-for-axis.html
14:55:52  <auroraeosrose>HAHAHAHAHAHA
14:55:54  <auroraeosrose>OMG OMG
14:57:57  <bob>whoever wrote that article is not a native english speaker.
14:58:27  <bob>Ethan Batraksi supposed to product management @Yahoo Search posted a comment on Nik blog post that covered the issue by asking the apology what had happened and they’ll release a new chrome extension with in next 30 min of time.
14:58:34  <virmitio>when yahoo yanked the key, they also signed using a new cert
14:58:38  <virmitio>http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/05/24/yahoo-leaks-its-own-private-key-via-new-axis-chrome-extension/
14:59:14  <bob>the great thing about the key system is that it is no big deal for the extention store to invalidate it.
14:59:20  <virmitio>presumably they will (or have) revoked the old one
14:59:20  <bob>and no big deal for yahoo to replace.
14:59:26  <wwahammy>are we sure they did do that though?
14:59:38  <auroraeosrose>yeah... but now what about old certs? and did they invalidate?
14:59:47  <auroraeosrose>errr - stuff signed with old certs
14:59:49  <auroraeosrose>that's the issue
15:00:51  <bob>the extension repo invalidating the old key would mean they would have to resign with the new one. not a terrible big deal.
15:01:15  <bob>even the old stuff. "oh look my extension updated"
15:01:23  * virmitiocan see it now... end-user: why is my Yahoo toolbar not working anymore?
15:01:30  <auroraeosrose>LOL
15:02:15  <bob>i was pretty sure they only check the key on-install. i would not have thought that they do an always-online-drm approach to constantly validating it.
15:03:24  <FearTheCowboy>New Interim Build
15:03:24  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp-
15:03:24  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp.devtools-
15:04:02  * auroraeosrosegoes to break it
15:07:34  <FearTheCowboy>this one shouldn't ever grab the 'ignored' feeds, and should only occasionally grab the 'passive' feeds
15:08:35  <auroraeosrose>mse is driving me buggy
15:08:43  <auroraeosrose>on every install it wants the service again
15:09:00  <auroraeosrose>it is faster FearTheCowboy
15:09:05  <auroraeosrose>and it didnt' break!
15:09:10  <FearTheCowboy>yay!
15:10:06  <FearTheCowboy>I've also changed it so the service installer makes the service manual by default (which is what it should be now)...
15:22:08  <wwahammy>so I can't update to the new version of NuGet because it's signature doesn't match the previous version and VS doesn't allow me to uninstall it either
15:22:11  <wwahammy>that's winning
15:22:51  <auroraeosrose>LOLLIN
15:24:26  <wwahammy>oh apparently I have to run VS as admin, uninstall the old version, close VS, install the new version and then restart VS
15:24:31  <wwahammy>seems simple enough
15:28:19  <wwahammy>seriously look at that new NuGet icon: http://yfrog.com/od8bigp
15:28:38  <wwahammy>why would they follow VS down that poor quality Metro road
15:28:39  <wwahammy>?
15:28:54  <auroraeosrose>ewwww
15:38:03  <FearTheCowboy>because they don't have my awesome photoshop skilz
15:38:25  <FearTheCowboy>and, the Nuget authors work in devdiv; they are essentially VS devs.
15:38:39  <virmitio>what about mspaint skills? that should be sufficient for the purpose
15:39:03  <FearTheCowboy>LOL
15:39:33  <auroraeosrose>paint bucket
15:39:38  <auroraeosrose>dump color
15:46:04  <bob>quick auroraeosrose
15:46:20  <bob>my boss just asked me "what is the 1 quality you have that other people dont"
15:46:30  <bob>"if you get it in 3 guesses, ill give you 100 in cash right now"
15:46:34  <bob>halp!
15:46:55  <bob>nfi what he is talking about rofl
15:47:03  <wwahammy>the ability to know when to ask others for advice to win $100?
15:47:37  <virmitio>"my blank stares actually are an indication of soullessness"?
15:47:55  <bob>no actually he listed that as something he dislikes about me, just a bit ago.
15:48:15  <bob>he also said i have the motivation of a pothead.
15:48:22  <virmitio>ability to admit not known an answer?
15:48:46  <bob>no actually he listed how i think im always right as something he dislikes too.
15:49:10  <wwahammy>are you sure this isn't just a nice to way to fire you?
15:49:12  <virmitio>ah, with this new information, I'm going to guess that your work is actually consistant
15:49:22  <bob>my first guess is going to be "lol, i put up with you?"
15:49:31  <bob>but he said it was serious not funny
15:50:09  <virmitio>have you ever called him out when he suggested something dumb?
15:50:33  <bob>i try to at least once a day.
15:50:46  <virmitio>does anyone else?
15:50:52  <bob>yeah, but he fired them. rofl.
15:51:48  <virmitio>"I've called you out on 'unwise' ideas and still work here?"
16:02:34  <bob>i won it with my first guess.
16:02:54  <bob>i told him how it drives me nuts how at dallas php i hear people talking about how they got a new job every two months. they have no sense of loyalty.
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16:04:08  <bob>i now hold in my hand, a 100 dollar bill. i've never held one before.
16:04:19  <bob>any time i took out lots of money from the bank it was always in 20's for 50's
16:04:32  <bob>then the internet happened and i never needed cash ever again
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16:05:31  <wwahammy>nice!
16:05:51  <wwahammy>Dear @FearTheCowboy, the following error message is not very helpful
16:05:53  <wwahammy>Error: Error (???): One or more errors occurred.
16:07:27  <FearTheCowboy>:p
16:07:45  <FearTheCowboy>what's debugview say?
16:10:19  <wwahammy>it's a test package I made, it seems to complain about dependencies... I'll post a gist
16:10:57  <wwahammy>https://gist.github.com/22d69aa79dc1300f616e
16:13:26  <FearTheCowboy>ah I see.
16:26:40  <FearTheCowboy>I think this is your fault :)
16:26:43  <FearTheCowboy>heh-heh.
16:26:46  <wwahammy>how?
16:27:33  <FearTheCowboy>didn't you make a change a while back something having to do with cancelling a task on an exception or something?
16:27:51  <wwahammy>... if I did, I don't remember it
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16:28:28  <FearTheCowboy>hmmm
16:28:29  <FearTheCowboy>nope
16:28:33  <FearTheCowboy>that's not what you did.
16:28:35  <FearTheCowboy>heh-heh.
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16:29:09  <FearTheCowboy>you made cancelled task throw operationcompletedbeforeresultexception...
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16:29:36  <wwahammy>I did?
16:30:26  <FearTheCowboy>https://github.com/fearthecowboy/coapp/commit/7cec8e0d1a7b04121953d76fb1f4dfaf6c745200
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16:31:41  <FearTheCowboy>hmm
16:31:45  * auroraeosrose2changed nick to auroraeosrose
16:32:03  <wwahammy>huh, what do you know?
16:32:11  <FearTheCowboy>https://join.microsoft.com/meet/garretts/M105V75T
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18:39:54  <FearTheCowboy>tee-hee-hee "pushItems[i]" has "shit" in it.
18:40:18  * FearTheCowboywas searching for words in source code.
18:40:41  <ender`>hah
18:44:02  <FearTheCowboy> New Interim Build
18:44:02  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp-
18:44:02  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp.devtools-
18:44:20  <FearTheCowboy>if you install these, you should be able to run
18:44:26  <FearTheCowboy>coapp trim
18:44:40  <FearTheCowboy>and it should remove the old ones smartly.
18:45:56  <ender`>the metro-style warning is annoying
18:46:07  <FearTheCowboy>lol
18:46:11  <auroraeosrose>see, I"m not the only one!
18:47:00  <FearTheCowboy>you shouldn't be seeing it much anymore :o
18:48:02  <FearTheCowboy>fyi: the command line still has lame error messages.
18:49:09  <ender`>btw, it's currently frozen at ~33%
18:49:31  <FearTheCowboy>We're going to call that the "ender-state"
18:49:58  <FearTheCowboy>I'm starting to wonder if that's defender or AV holding us up.
18:50:19  <FearTheCowboy>gotta do some VM testing to find a repro.
18:50:43  <FearTheCowboy>I've tried to minimize the 'behaviors' that cause defender to suspect software.
18:51:08  <FearTheCowboy>(one of which is autostarting a service... It's now set to 'manual', since the client can start it easily.)
18:51:18  <ender`>last thing in dbgview is [6000] �Error/CoApp Service�-[2]Feed http://coapp.org/archive was unable to load.
18:51:29  <FearTheCowboy>yeah, that's still typical;
18:51:34  <FearTheCowboy>hmm.
18:52:10  <FearTheCowboy>can you post the log for that.
18:52:30  <ender`>i'll do that as soon as it finishes
18:52:36  <ender`>(in other words, now)
18:52:53  <FearTheCowboy>...
18:53:02  <FearTheCowboy>and, for testing fun and joy, I have : http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/testpackages.zip
18:53:21  <FearTheCowboy>it's a bunch of tiny packages that you can play with to install/uninstall
18:53:53  <ender`>http://p.0au.de/b1097c9b
18:55:28  <FearTheCowboy>jeez, this is soooo weird. by the time it stalls, the service is running, and the .... oh. wait.
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18:57:18  <FearTheCowboy>if you still have that in dbgview, can you resave it with time offsets instead of clock time?
18:58:16  <ender`>sure
18:58:53  <ender`>http://p.0au.de/a607fff
19:00:06  <FearTheCowboy>much easier :) thanks
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19:12:00  <FearTheCowboy>Hmmmmmmm
19:12:05  <FearTheCowboy>I think I may know the culprit.
19:12:22  <FearTheCowboy>I'm starting to think that WinVerifyTrust() can be a slow bitch of a call.
19:13:42  <FearTheCowboy>ender` -> do you have those URLs for the traces you ran a week or so back?
19:13:57  <FearTheCowboy>I think I dropped the files when I rebuilt my OS over the weekend.
19:14:06  <ender`>let me grep the logs
19:14:57  <ender`>maj 08 19:16:58 <ender`> http://p.0au.de/a21138df
19:14:58  <ender`>maj 08 20:42:50 <ender|> http://p.0au.de/946a03ff
19:14:58  <ender`>maj 08 20:51:15 <ender|> log with times: http://p.0au.de/88b3f15d
19:14:58  <ender`>maj 08 21:10:30 <ender`> http://p.0au.de/1512ac42
19:14:58  <ender`>maj 08 21:19:54 <ender`> http://p.0au.de/2fc9bc51
19:14:59  <ender`>maj 08 22:15:14 <ender`> http://p.0au.de/142bc784
19:14:59  <ender`>maj 09 18:38:33 <ender`> http://p.0au.de/8047780b
19:15:00  <ender`>maj 14 20:56:17 <ender`> http://p.0au.de/9bc763bb
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19:15:51  <FearTheCowboy>I meant the perfview trace
19:16:55  <ender`>oh. should have them somewhere
19:17:33  <ender`>maj 09 19:43:02 <ender`> http://eternallybored.org/misc/PerfViewData.etl.zip
19:17:33  <ender`>maj 09 19:46:25 <ender`> http://eternallybored.org/misc/PerfViewData.fast.etl.zip
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19:27:22  <wwahammy>dear Microsoft Security Essentials... quit asking me about CoApp!!!!
19:29:49  <FearTheCowboy>hmm.
19:30:23  <FearTheCowboy>ender -> I'm gonna put in some special messages in signature validation to see if that's where we're losing all that time.
19:30:36  <ender`>ok
19:30:48  <FearTheCowboy>the perfview data didn't caputre deep enough to see that.
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19:36:53  <FearTheCowboy>ender` -> are you running that out of a folder with a lot of MSIs in it? (like a download folder?)
19:37:02  <ender`>yes
19:37:27  <FearTheCowboy>just out of curiousity how many MSIs?
19:38:40  <ender`>93 at the moment
19:39:08  <ender`>(and 4500 other files)
19:39:11  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. that's not *that* high.
19:40:08  <ender`>yeah, i'm surprised it's that low
19:41:06  <FearTheCowboy>oh hell.
19:41:11  <FearTheCowboy>I think that *is* it.
19:41:37  <FearTheCowboy>I think I've got it using the current folder as a 'feed' and it's blocking on analyzing every file in the folder.
19:41:40  * FearTheCowboybad.
19:41:50  <ender`>haha
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19:46:26  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. if there is 4500 files there, that's gonna be about ~65 ms per file to check what it is. which is pretty much what my stats tell me .
19:46:29  <FearTheCowboy>:/
19:46:41  <FearTheCowboy>Well, to start, I'm gonna filter that down to just MSI files in folders.
19:46:50  <FearTheCowboy>that should drop it down to a second or two.
19:47:39  <FearTheCowboy>second thing I gotta do is delay even glancing at the feeds till after the recognize file action is done.
19:48:43  <FearTheCowboy>Hmm. and then on top of that I think I'm actually checking each file twice!
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20:16:33  <FearTheCowboy>I'm going to do a test with 100000 files in the directory.
20:19:50  <FearTheCowboy>Cool. It now is properly scoped to check for only MSI files for related files (rather than foolishly looking at everything)
20:22:58  <FearTheCowboy> New Interim Build
20:22:58  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp-
20:22:58  <FearTheCowboy> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp.devtools-
20:23:12  <FearTheCowboy>ender -> Run the cleaner first (this won't force it)
20:23:50  <ender`>ok, though subsequent runs of coapp installer were usually fast
20:23:59  <FearTheCowboy>well, true enough.
20:24:28  <ender`>what's the cleaner url again?
20:24:38  <FearTheCowboy>it should be in your PATH already
20:24:43  <FearTheCowboy>it's in coapp
20:24:52  <ender`>oh
20:25:11  <FearTheCowboy>otherwise it's http://coapp.org/cleaner
20:27:13  <wwahammy>@FearTheCowboy: I like the new UI changes for the bootstrapper
20:27:46  <ender`>well, that was instant
20:27:49  <FearTheCowboy>bootstrapper ? or installer?
20:27:56  <FearTheCowboy>:)
20:28:12  <ender`>coapp-
20:28:20  <wwahammy>installer I mean
20:28:32  <FearTheCowboy>ender` -> yeah, even it should be a lot snappier with checking files in the current direcotry
20:28:51  <FearTheCowboy>I removed duplication (in two places) and scoped it to just MSIs.
20:29:12  <ender`>text in the dropdown is invisible for me in the toolkit (it's black on black)
20:29:33  <FearTheCowboy>ender` -> so I need a background set in the dropdown?
20:29:43  <FearTheCowboy>the foreground is proabably set already.
20:29:49  <ender`>or don't set the foreground
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21:33:39  <ender`>http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/
21:34:14  <wwahammy>kinda.
21:35:08  <ender`>the Windows SDK for windows 8 will not include a compiler toolchain at all, lest any sneaky developers try to cheat the system and use it to write desktop apps.
21:35:26  <wwahammy>As mentioned, the DDK will have to
21:35:36  <ender`>yeaj
21:35:38  <wwahammy>I think the decision is beyond stupid
21:35:48  <ender`>h*
21:36:09  <auroraeosrose>that's incredibly stupid
21:37:54  <wwahammy>Indeed it is
21:38:23  <auroraeosrose>it'll make all the microsoft is evil come back out of the woodwork
21:38:24  <auroraeosrose>way to screw things up
21:38:36  <ender`>it looks like they're trying to actively discourage developing for windows
21:39:39  <auroraeosrose>they are, deskto pwindows that is
21:42:23  <ender`>ok, i'm off to bed
21:43:07  * ender`quit (Quit: Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia.)
21:45:17  <wwahammy>I'm trying to figure out what Node.JS will do.
21:45:52  <auroraeosrose>will do?
21:46:39  <wwahammy>the article mentioned that making sure it could build in VC++ 10 Express was important when they moved to Windows
21:46:46  <wwahammy>now they can't do that
21:47:19  <vpovirk>well, they can
21:47:33  <wwahammy>if they stay on VC10
21:49:14  <FearTheCowboy>it's really not that surprising anyway
21:49:28  <wwahammy>how do you figure?
21:49:41  <FearTheCowboy>VC8/9/10 Express are all still available, and VC11 won't compile for XP/2003 anyway
21:50:00  <FearTheCowboy>so where's the big deal? VC11 cuts out half of the OS audience anyway
21:50:02  <auroraeosrose>that is going to really limit stuff build on vc11
21:50:08  <FearTheCowboy>pretty much.
21:50:37  <FearTheCowboy>we'll make faux packages for the different VC versions, the SDKs and the WDK.
21:51:13  <FearTheCowboy>coapp install VC10Express SDK71 WDK
21:52:22  <wwahammy>coapp solves every problem :)
21:53:34  <vpovirk>I want to live in a timeline where we do coapp install libwine-gdiplus on windows arm tablets
21:53:45  <auroraeosrose>coapp install c-dev
21:54:00  <auroraeosrose>that's far too much to type ;)
21:55:22  <wwahammy>vpovirk: if you can convince Rafael that Microsoft made a bad decision (difficult), I'm sure he'll make it work
21:55:32  <vpovirk>about what?
21:55:42  <wwahammy>coapp on ARM
21:55:50  <vpovirk>microsoft made a decision about that?
21:55:53  <wwahammy>hell anything on ARM
21:56:08  <wwahammy>decision about what?
21:56:13  <vpovirk>coapp on arm
21:56:32  <wwahammy>we're a desktop application, desktop applications do not run on ARM
21:56:50  <wwahammy>unless something changed in the last few weeks, that was pretty much the end of it
21:57:21  <vpovirk>I meant we weren't considered specifically
21:57:37  <FearTheCowboy>Rafael said there's no WPF in the ARM build.. which indicates that the .NET support on ARM is pretty trimmed.
21:57:59  <FearTheCowboy>I'll stick to X64/X86/Atom thanks.
21:58:12  <FearTheCowboy>wwahammy -> http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp-
21:58:14  <vpovirk>well, yeah, why would there be?
21:58:15  <FearTheCowboy>fixed that filter.
21:58:21  <wwahammy>sweet
21:58:51  <FearTheCowboy>I wasn't really expecting that there would be, but, it just shows that if it's not used for WinRT or one of MS's scenarios, it's not there.
21:59:03  <FearTheCowboy>Which limits what CoApp could ever do on Arm.
22:00:03  <wwahammy>I'm not convinced Microsoft will stick to no desktop apps long term on ARM
22:00:04  <vpovirk>pretty much anything we need for a linux desktop app can be replaced
22:00:05  <virmitio>since I believe that most of what we're doing falls slightly outside of "one of MS's scenarios"
22:04:22  <vpovirk>some of it can be replaced with bits of wine
22:04:25  <FearTheCowboy>Until we can convice MS to use it :)
22:04:38  <vpovirk>which I just think would be a lot of fun
22:06:18  * mpreislerquit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:06:39  <vpovirk>can you name a specific thing (not an api) that we'd be limited from doing on arm, assuming we can get on the desktop
22:07:24  <FearTheCowboy>no, if we could write arbitrary software, it's all downhill from there.
22:08:31  <vpovirk>it's got sound, graphics, windowing, and input
22:10:45  * mloskotchanged nick to mloskot_dogwalk
22:12:16  <wwahammy>apparently the driver kit is out: http://www.withinwindows.com/share/2012-05-240310170.png
22:16:46  <vpovirk>I'd like to know whether vs11 (not express) can still compile an arm desktop app
22:16:49  <vpovirk>that won't run anywhere
22:17:49  <vpovirk>this would mean no free way to do that at all, until there's a mingw targeting arm
22:20:48  * wwahammyquit (Quit: Clap on! , Clap off! Clap@#&$NO CARRIER)
22:30:33  <auroraeosrose>no wonder my computer is so dang slow
22:30:40  <virmitio>?
22:30:43  <auroraeosrose>between metrotwit and firefox they're eating more then a gig of memory
22:30:52  * auroraeosrosecloses leaky pieces of crap
22:32:39  * virmitiofondly remembers when 24 MB of RAM was more than enough to run anything one would actually care about.
22:32:49  <auroraeosrose>yeah, I know
22:32:54  <auroraeosrose>WPF EATS MA RAM
22:36:19  <virmitio>question for those who use chrome more frequently than myself...
22:37:42  <virmitio>if I've got exactly one window of chrome open, with exactly one tab open, why do I have 6 processes running named "chrome.exe"?
22:38:16  <vpovirk>I could account for 3
22:38:24  <mloskot_dogwalk>I have 4
22:38:40  <vpovirk>window, page, plugin
22:38:53  <mloskot_dogwalk>apps manager, browser, updater, instance spying for the big G, etc.
22:38:57  * mloskot_dogwalkchanged nick to mloskot
22:39:06  <vpovirk>by plugin I mean flash because it's the only plugin
22:52:26  * Seiyria__part
23:00:27  <FearTheCowboy>Rafael is just looking at (x86) VC11 Express right now. Regardless of what they say, it appears that along with the Windows SDK installed, you can easily command line compiler can still make non-WinRT apps (ie, regular win32 apps).
23:00:55  <FearTheCowboy>it appears that the big thing that you'd be missing would be the Project templates for VC.
23:01:13  <vpovirk>what about arm win32 desktop apps that won't run?
23:01:43  <FearTheCowboy>well, the VC Arm cross-compiler is there, but no libs, and no way to run them...
23:01:58  <FearTheCowboy>but, if you could make libs, the tools are there.
23:02:04  * virmitioquit (Quit: Leaving.)
23:02:07  <FearTheCowboy>and then you just gotta jailbrake
23:02:10  <vpovirk>I know some version had libs
23:03:10  <FearTheCowboy>oh, no apparently the arm libs are there.
23:03:13  <FearTheCowboy>so....
23:03:26  <vpovirk>you can run the exe's in wine
23:03:28  <vpovirk>on arm
23:03:29  <FearTheCowboy>that makes that wasier.
23:03:30  <FearTheCowboy>LOL
23:03:42  <FearTheCowboy>*easier
23:07:27  <vpovirk>so if I have VC express I can just take someone else's desktop project and build it?
23:07:56  <FearTheCowboy>probably only have to setup the environment variables (doesn't seem that setenv.cmd is there)
23:08:03  <vpovirk>or use something like cmake or nmake
23:09:04  <FearTheCowboy>yeah
23:09:19  <FearTheCowboy>(screenshot of it working in a moment...)
23:15:21  <FearTheCowboy> No-cost desktop software development is not really dead on Windows 8 http://t.co/5JhiWygr
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