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11:49:50  <madewokherd>is the world rebuilt yet?
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12:53:40  <madewokherd>https://gist.github.com/2725100 <-- putting this up so that when one of these is blocked, I can put the reason on the list
13:04:32  <auroraeosrose>sweet
13:10:57  <mgdm>hmmmm, if you're doing gtk+, you'll also be doing ciaro?
13:11:49  <auroraeosrose>I think we're helping with the stack mgdm ;)
13:11:57  <auroraeosrose>we're making him do gtk itself (ewww)
13:12:04  <auroraeosrose>speaking of
13:12:09  <auroraeosrose>virmitio: you on yet?
13:12:38  <madewokherd>yes, I'm working on cairo right now (actually libpng which is a dep)
13:13:08  <auroraeosrose>freetype and fontconfig too?
13:13:22  <auroraeosrose>yes yes - dont' want to do font config but gtk still makes some stupid assumptions afaik
13:13:48  <madewokherd>not unless I need them later
13:14:11  <madewokherd>according to my notes, I won't need those until pygtk
13:14:17  <madewokherd>but I've been wrong before
13:14:27  <auroraeosrose>hehehe
13:14:44  <madewokherd>example: libpng
13:14:44  <mgdm>I was intending to do that, but then life
13:14:45  <mgdm>sorry
13:15:20  <madewokherd>which I didn't think I needed for cairo, and I guess I don't but I'll end up with a really unfeatured cairo if I skip it
13:16:09  <auroraeosrose>madewokherd: I think although you can get away with cairo without libpng or font-config or freetype - every program using gtk uses all those in cairo
13:16:19  <auroraeosrose>if I remember right that was the catch-22 I ran into
13:16:29  <auroraeosrose>sure you could skip them... but then your gtk was semi-useless ;)
13:16:36  <madewokherd>so I won't need it until aisleriot ;)
13:16:56  <auroraeosrose>or pygtk, or php-gtk, or ruby-gnome, or gtk-mm
13:17:00  <auroraeosrose>;)
13:17:04  <auroraeosrose>inkscape!
13:17:08  <madewokherd>well I definitely need it for pygtk
13:17:11  <auroraeosrose>yup
13:17:27  <madewokherd>wait
13:17:34  <madewokherd>my notes don't explain the connection
13:17:43  <madewokherd>between pygtk and fontconfig
13:18:01  <auroraeosrose>the connection is pango
13:18:07  <auroraeosrose>pango make stupid assumptions
13:18:10  <auroraeosrose>in it's font code
13:18:21  <auroraeosrose>afaik those are not fixed on windows
13:19:11  <madewokherd>so whenever I happen to first observe these problems
13:19:19  <madewokherd>maybe gtk-demo
13:19:49  <auroraeosrose>LOL
13:20:00  <auroraeosrose>actually freetype2 isn't bad
13:20:12  <auroraeosrose>freetype1 may require brain surgery and probably is safely skippable
13:20:19  <auroraeosrose>font-config is a cluster
13:20:24  <auroraeosrose>F88k
13:20:36  <madewokherd>I don't have many dependencies listed for them
13:20:41  <madewokherd>just expat, which I think is done
13:20:53  <auroraeosrose>no - the deps aren't bad
13:21:04  <auroraeosrose>and freetype2 compiles pretty clean last I knew, it used to be bad
13:21:11  <auroraeosrose>however font-config requires patches to even COMPILE
13:21:15  * auroraeosroseshudders
13:33:21  <auroraeosrose>madewokherd: suprised winmerge isn't on list of doom ;)
13:34:17  <madewokherd>but git already does merges...?
13:35:07  <auroraeosrose>winmerge is a visual merge tool - a la meld
13:35:09  <auroraeosrose>is very nice
13:35:25  <madewokherd>I prefer lots of angle brackets and equals signs
13:35:38  <auroraeosrose>really?
13:35:40  <auroraeosrose>ewwww
13:35:58  <madewokherd>I could never really follow the two versions of things side by side
13:36:06  <auroraeosrose>ah, I prefer it
13:36:16  <auroraeosrose>makes it very easy to see instantly and pull across
13:36:20  <madewokherd>even for normal diffs I want + and -
13:36:43  <auroraeosrose>hehe - that's what the blocks of color are for...
13:56:08  * gixquit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
13:59:38  <madewokherd>I don't seem to be allowed to have more than one dev library in a package
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14:13:31  <virmitio>auroraeosrose: you rang?
14:14:12  <auroraeosrose>you will be available next week for getting packages up yes?
14:14:21  <madewokherd>oh man
14:14:27  <madewokherd>my package installer crashed
14:14:27  <virmitio>yes
14:15:10  <auroraeosrose>sweet
14:15:32  <virmitio>fearthecowboy promised me a (semi-)stable build today that we could use to start making post-break packages
14:15:59  <virmitio>official RC is looking like it's pushed back to late next week
14:16:36  <virmitio>at this point, I know that the final release is sometime in June, but I've stopped guessing when
14:22:16  <madewokherd>yep, I broke it
14:22:59  <virmitio>madewokherd: you should stop doing that, it's counter-productive
14:23:35  <virmitio>myself and fearthecowboy are authorities on this matter
14:24:23  <madewokherd>my code is on github if you want to see
14:24:31  <madewokherd>in coapp-package/libpng
14:24:35  <madewokherd>packages
14:25:03  <madewokherd>package builds but crashes when I open the msi
14:25:25  <virmitio>that's awesome
14:25:40  <virmitio>what version of the devtools are you working with right now?
14:25:52  <madewokherd>
14:27:06  <virmitio>and all three resultant msi files die horribly?
14:27:10  <madewokherd>yes
14:27:15  <virmitio>sweet
14:27:27  <madewokherd>some sooner than others though
14:28:12  <madewokherd>ooh, this means I can update my document
14:32:57  <virmitio>madewokherd: nothing in the files strikes me as being a problem
14:34:19  <virmitio>the dev-common package, at the least, should install without issue
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15:39:34  <madewokherd>libgmp is surprisingly complicated
16:07:42  <madewokherd>they have a list of like 20 variations of x86
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16:07:57  <madewokherd>each of which have various special implimentations of bits of it
16:08:17  <virmitio>why?
16:08:35  <madewokherd>I don't know
16:08:43  <madewokherd>can I rely on pentium pro?
16:09:05  <madewokherd>well, I do know, it's for optimization
16:13:02  <madewokherd>tempted to just go with 386
16:17:49  <madewokherd>apparently windows xp won't run on anything earlier than a pentium
16:17:57  <virmitio>true
16:18:36  <virmitio>so going with a 586/Pentium minimum should be safe for our purposes
16:19:01  <virmitio>in truth, XP only barely runs on anything under a Pentium Pro
16:19:56  <auroraeosrose>wait - does libgmp do assembly and such?
16:20:00  <auroraeosrose>that would be why...
16:20:41  <madewokherd>some is assembly and some is C
16:21:02  <madewokherd>I think it has a generic C version of everything
16:21:17  <auroraeosrose>I"m sure it does, but that would be why there are variations
16:21:30  <auroraeosrose>since they were probably tweaking the assembly
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16:23:19  <auroraeosrose>math libs - performance is the only thing ;)
16:24:44  <auroraeosrose>http://www.mpir.org - madewokherd <- prefer this one myself
16:25:06  <auroraeosrose>fork with much much much better windows support and performance
16:25:08  <auroraeosrose>justsayin ;)
16:25:28  <madewokherd>I'll see if guile will accept that
16:26:52  <madewokherd>or is it source compatible?
16:26:53  <auroraeosrose>has better licensing too ;)
16:27:08  <auroraeosrose>not sure...
16:28:16  <auroraeosrose>afaik you can just drop one or the other in....
16:30:51  <madewokherd>seems like it
16:30:58  <madewokherd>sounds perfect
16:31:37  <wwahammy>I would refer to that as "different licensing" not better :)
16:31:46  <auroraeosrose>wwahammy: lgpl vs. gpl3
16:31:50  <auroraeosrose>um, yeah, better ;)
16:31:54  <madewokherd>"except for the mpz_pown_sec function which we don't regard as suitable for inclusion into a general purpose bignum library"
16:31:56  <wwahammy>not in my book :)
16:32:16  <madewokherd>well, I guess they'd know better than I would
16:32:18  <auroraeosrose>ewww, you one who likes the virii ;)
16:33:06  <madewokherd>depends on the application; for a library I'd normally prefer lgpl :p
16:33:22  <wwahammy>it's not viral, although it seems like most people on here disagree with that
16:33:24  * auroraeosroseagrees
16:33:25  <virmitio>I'm not really a fan of infections licenses, myself.
16:33:32  <auroraeosrose>it is viral dear - go ask the fsf ;)
16:33:45  <auroraeosrose>maybe not with everything - but linked C libraries? hell yes
16:33:47  <FearTheCowboy>It's the Republican Model.
16:34:02  <wwahammy>*sigh*
16:34:37  <auroraeosrose>the evil lawyers say it is viral, it is their job to decide that (cause you know...)
16:34:38  <madewokherd>at least for a general-purpose library
16:34:55  <madewokherd>for a specialized library or program I'm ok with gpl
16:36:03  <FearTheCowboy>#CoApp Weekly Conf Call 10:30 PDT (in about 55 minutes). Connect w/Lync Attendee http://t.co/9jl2lj94 to http://t.co/Xt8bJ9gd Join Anytime
16:36:09  <virmitio>I generally lean towards an all-or-nothing approach. I either don't want to see the source, or I want it to be on a BSD-like license
16:36:16  <auroraeosrose>btw FearTheCowboy, I'm in the other meeting listening to them and the node scaffolder (sigh wtf)
16:37:57  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I wasn't gonna bother this morning with that one
16:38:39  <auroraeosrose>I'm majorly zoning
16:40:33  <virmitio>auroraeosrose: you could always bail from that meeting early and join us...
16:41:28  <wwahammy>a nurse with biohazard box just rang my door bell
16:41:33  <wwahammy>fortunately she had the wrong house
16:42:06  <wwahammy>or perhaps unfortunately, and I'm now infected with some terrible illness
16:43:56  <auroraeosrose>LOL
16:47:59  <auroraeosrose>.... presenters disappearing
16:48:01  <auroraeosrose>awesome
16:50:29  <madewokherd>oh cool we already have a mpir fork
16:50:55  <auroraeosrose>yeah, I figured
16:50:57  <auroraeosrose>php uses it ;)
16:52:40  <madewokherd>"compiler: sdk7.1;"
16:52:42  <madewokherd>why?
16:53:11  <madewokherd>I demand someone answer for Jonny Best
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16:54:50  <auroraeosrose>who what?
16:54:55  <auroraeosrose>it wants the 7.1 sdk?
16:54:56  <virmitio>twice
16:55:27  <auroraeosrose>probably it uses something new and shiny ;)
16:55:30  <auroraeosrose>SHINEEE
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17:02:16  <madewokherd>well, it seems to work, so I guess all I have to do is make some autopkg files
17:03:36  <auroraeosrose>hi CristinaTurcan!
17:06:52  <virmitio>#CoApp Weekly Conf Call 10:30 PDT (in about 25 minutes). Connect w/Lync Attendee http://t.co/9jl2lj94 to http://t.co/Xt8bJ9gd Join Anytime
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19:00:02  <madewokherd>bah, I've been doing all my cairo work on some random point in its development
19:00:10  <madewokherd>now I have to rebase onto an actual release
19:00:12  <auroraeosrose>oh dear
19:02:54  <madewokherd>"win32: Rebase on the new compositor infrastructure"
19:02:56  <madewokherd>great
19:03:33  <auroraeosrose>what - that's a good thing ;)
19:03:40  <auroraeosrose>oh... your rebase is gonna suck isn't it
19:03:41  <madewokherd>means I have to update my build
19:04:11  <madewokherd>no, the rebase is ok, I didn't modify much in the tree
19:04:29  <auroraeosrose>that's good
19:04:33  <auroraeosrose>new build sounds good as well
19:06:05  <madewokherd>probably easiest to just go through the makefiles again and figure out what sources and defines I need
19:14:04  <madewokherd>this is where I'd include cairo-ft-font.c in the build if I had freetype I guess
19:16:04  <auroraeosrose>yes
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19:19:15  <madewokherd>well that wasn't so bad
19:19:30  * wwahammyquit (Quit: Always try to be modest, and be proud about it!)
19:19:39  <auroraeosrose>sweet
19:22:37  <madewokherd>um
19:22:42  <madewokherd>are MPL and LGPL compatible?
19:23:21  <madewokherd>if some things are MPL and some things are LGPL, can I say everything is LGPL or is it actually some crazy hybrid?
19:25:29  <auroraeosrose>MPL,LGPL
19:25:32  <auroraeosrose>hehe
19:26:17  * CristinaTurcanquit (Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.)
19:27:48  <mloskot>madewokherd: this may help, but be aware it's crazy :) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91384
19:50:36  <madewokherd>just what is a "license type" anyway?
20:00:22  * remy_ojoined
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20:39:11  <mloskot>madewokherd: no idea really, perhaps this short Q&A will help
20:39:12  <mloskot>http://www.crystalclearsoftware.com/cgi-bin/boost_wiki/wiki.pl?Boost_License/Mozilla_Public_License
20:39:16  <mloskot>http://www.crystalclearsoftware.com/cgi-bin/boost_wiki/wiki.pl?Boost_License/GNU_Lesser_General_Public_License_-_LGPL
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21:51:41  <madewokherd>oh hey glib depends on libffi now
21:51:46  <madewokherd>good thing I already packaged that
21:54:19  <madewokherd>(need updated glib because pango)
22:05:57  <ender`>http://eternallybored.org/Image1.jpg http://eternallybored.org/Image4.png
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23:09:54  <FearTheCowboy>Testable builds (Still bugs, but fairly workable!):
23:09:54  <FearTheCowboy>http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp-
23:09:55  <FearTheCowboy>http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp.devtools-
23:18:10  * ender`quit (Quit: The likelihood of Perl being involved in a system is directly proportional to the length of time the system has been in maintenance.)
23:22:37  <mloskot>FearTheCowboy: is this the pre-official release of CoApp binaries?
23:23:30  <FearTheCowboy>no ... it's the "we're 7-days-away-from-rc,-after-a-few-weeks-of-very-unstable-builds"
23:24:14  <mloskot>I just noticed new URL
23:24:16  <FearTheCowboy>it's really for a couple people who needed my build from today.
23:24:23  <mloskot>I see
23:24:54  <FearTheCowboy>a lot of rework went into this, it's really *REALLY* fast compared to the older builds
23:25:01  <FearTheCowboy>but there is no feeds for this yet
23:27:46  <mloskot>FearTheCowboy: I've been wondering, MSVCRT.lib is still provided by Win DDK, right?
23:28:08  <FearTheCowboy>Yes
23:28:37  <mloskot>There is no x64 release of this library, is it?
23:29:07  <FearTheCowboy>Yes
23:29:11  <FearTheCowboy>it's in the DDK as well
23:29:18  <FearTheCowboy>as is the Itanium version
23:29:31  <FearTheCowboy>they *have* to be; it's the only way to build drivers.
23:29:48  * remy_oquit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
23:31:01  <mloskot>Good to know
23:32:03  <mloskot>but it's DDK, we are talking about, not Windows SDK?
23:32:22  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah. But the DDK is free too.
23:33:44  <mloskot>Yes. I just heard arguments, DDK is dead end as it won't be updated and it actually doesn't provide x64 support
23:33:56  <mloskot>As I have never used DDK, I wasn't sure
23:33:59  <mloskot>Thx
23:34:09  <FearTheCowboy>that's Not TRUE!!
23:34:15  <FearTheCowboy>the DDK is not a "dead end"
23:34:22  <FearTheCowboy>that's the silliest thing I've heard of
23:34:36  <FearTheCowboy>anyone who says that is not well informed.
23:34:51  <mloskot>Good I asked
23:35:14  <mloskot>Actually, here it is
23:35:15  <mloskot>http://stackoverflow.com/a/10637480/151641
23:35:43  <madewokherd>so what is left to be done with sxsplus ?
23:35:44  <mloskot>I suggested CoApp-way to one guy and in comments, MSalters said what struck me
23:36:02  <mloskot>FearTheCowboy: thanks for clarification
23:37:46  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, he doesn't seem to understand nothin' :)
23:38:38  <mloskot>:)
23:41:08  <madewokherd>oh man there's a repo for it on github
23:41:12  * madewokherdreads sxsplus.h
23:41:23  <FearTheCowboy>that's not done yet!
23:41:52  <madewokherd>if you don't want people reading it, don't put it on a public github repo
23:42:04  <FearTheCowboy>lol
23:51:36  <madewokherd>wow, that didn't explain much of anything
23:54:25  <madewokherd>well, it's a little bit clearer