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15:28:28  <dmex>FearTheCowboy: Does coapp need all these symlinks in appdata and other places?
15:29:29  <FearTheCowboy>In a way, yes.. it creates them because that's the way that we install software.
15:30:09  <FearTheCowboy>This lets us install to programfiles, but create a 'view' of the installed packages that is more consistent with packaging on other systems so we can build, link and depend on stuff better
15:30:19  <FearTheCowboy>in a version-neutral way.
15:31:03  <FearTheCowboy>it's not like they should be giving you trouble.
15:31:22  <FearTheCowboy>and we only create them in programdata and below.
15:31:51  <virmitio>I think we also make a c:\apps that contains everything
15:32:20  <virmitio>not sure if that's going to stay or not
15:32:20  <FearTheCowboy>well, yeah, that's a symlink back to programdata. and mainly because programdata is deep insinde docs&crap in XP
15:32:55  <virmitio>silly default pathnames that contain spaces
15:33:59  * dmexremembers a funny story about documents _settings during xp development
15:34:27  <dmex>just curious why some symlinks go back and forward
15:34:59  <FearTheCowboy>what do you mean "back and forward"?
15:34:59  <dmex>appdata > foldersymlink > appdatasymlink > appdata
15:35:09  <FearTheCowboy>ah. those aren't mine.
15:35:13  <FearTheCowboy>Windows does that.
15:35:18  <FearTheCowboy>Don't blame me man.
15:35:34  <dmex>:P
15:35:39  <FearTheCowboy>I've wondered what dumbass put that in for years. :)
15:36:11  <dmex>I figure it was related to the virtualization stuff
15:36:22  <dmex>some stupid app they added a shim for
15:36:50  <FearTheCowboy>laziness, if you ask me.
15:36:53  * dmexagain reminded of xp development
15:37:19  <dmex>the story starts with how some devs wanted documents & settings
15:37:44  <dmex>however the compiler, as you might know, does't like & in strings :)
15:38:30  <dmex>aparently, several attempts were made to make it work but broke windows each time
15:40:13  * dmexdoesn't know why they waited till Vista to just call it Users
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16:40:19  <wwahammy>Intersting information about optional parameters in c# 4: http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2010/05/18/caveats-of-c-4-0-optional-parameters/
16:42:15  <wwahammy>also interesting
16:42:42  <FearTheCowboy>I've got an xml snippet that I'm serializing...
16:42:43  <FearTheCowboy>xml encoded object => 921 bytes.
16:42:44  <FearTheCowboy>UrlEnoded xml => 1259 bytes
16:42:44  <FearTheCowboy>Base64 Encoded xml => 1228 bytes (IT's ACTUALLY LESS than UrlEncoding!?)
16:42:44  <FearTheCowboy>gzip + UrlEncoding xml => 713 bytes
16:42:44  <FearTheCowboy>gzip + Base64 encoding => 388 bytes.
16:43:15  <wwahammy>hmmm strange
16:43:21  <FearTheCowboy>Xml is quite possibly the worst possible thing to UrlEncode (all those non-url-safe characters!)
16:43:31  <wwahammy>apparently
16:43:50  <FearTheCowboy>Impressive tho' gzip + Base64 is 1/3 the size of the XML itself.
16:44:02  <FearTheCowboy>and, is UrlSafe
16:44:08  <FearTheCowboy>or is it...
16:44:30  <wwahammy>Does size matter that much when it's only being transmitted locally?
16:44:58  <wwahammy>I mean the gzipping, while fast, will require more time to create and parse
16:45:14  <FearTheCowboy>xml gzip + base64 + UrlEncode .. 422 bytes.
16:45:19  <FearTheCowboy>no, not *really* imporatant.
16:45:24  <FearTheCowboy>I was curious.
16:45:32  <virmitio>FearTheCowboy: now you're just being silly
16:46:23  <FearTheCowboy>virmitio -> for everything or the xml => gzip => bas64 => UrlEncode
16:46:36  <FearTheCowboy>if It was going over the wire, only the urlencoded ones work :)
16:46:48  <virmitio>FearTheCowboy: some of "yes", but mostly just that last one
16:47:18  <FearTheCowboy>I won't turn that on right now, but if we run into message size issues later on, I just might.
16:48:09  <FearTheCowboy>Pity there isn't an urlencoded-safe implementation of base64
16:48:21  <virmitio>wait, optional arguments get compiled into the caller?
16:48:39  <wwahammy>according to that article, yes
16:48:43  <virmitio>wtf?
16:48:48  <FearTheCowboy>yep
16:49:00  <FearTheCowboy>optional arguments are syntatic sugar
16:49:06  <FearTheCowboy>even in C++
16:49:42  <wwahammy>while helpful, that's boneheaded
16:49:52  <virmitio>FearTheCowboy: I get that, but they could've at least made it so they could still be used reliably in redistributable libraries
16:49:59  <wwahammy>exactly
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16:58:49  <FearTheCowboy>wwahammy , virmitio => I've got the Expression serialization working. Currently, it's serializing to XML and then passing that as a whole parameter. I may eventually use the Expression to Xml code as a roadmap to encode directly to the UrlEncodedMessage, but I've got better things to do right now.
16:59:02  <FearTheCowboy>it seems to work, and that's all I really care about right now.
16:59:14  <wwahammy>cool
16:59:36  <virmitio>so long as it works and won't explode violently in our faces the moment we go back to it
16:59:50  <FearTheCowboy>== true.
17:00:04  <wwahammy>I'm doing testing of converting our old Query classes to use and create expressions
17:00:57  <FearTheCowboy>FYI, I had to add in the ability to add in a pair of custom serializer methods for arbitrary types. It's super easy, very straightforward if you need to handle types that you didn't code :)
17:02:26  <FearTheCowboy>all you have to do is put somehting like this in a static initializer somewhere:
17:02:26  <FearTheCowboy> UrlEncodedMessage.AddCustomSerializer(new CustomMessageSerializer<UnaryExpression>(
17:02:27  <FearTheCowboy> (message, key, obj) => {
17:02:27  <FearTheCowboy> message.Add(key + ".Type", obj.Type);
17:02:27  <FearTheCowboy> message.Add(key + ".NodeType", obj.NodeType);
17:02:27  <FearTheCowboy> message.Add(key + ".Operand", obj.Operand);
17:02:27  <FearTheCowboy> message.Add(key + ".Method", obj.Method);
17:02:27  <FearTheCowboy> message.Add(key + ".CanReduce", obj.CanReduce);
17:02:28  <FearTheCowboy> },
17:02:29  <FearTheCowboy> (message, key) => {
17:02:29  <FearTheCowboy> var method = message.GetValue<MethodInfo>(key + ".Method");
17:02:29  <FearTheCowboy> var operand = message.GetValue<Expression>(key + ".Operand");
17:02:30  <FearTheCowboy> var expressionType = message.GetValue<ExpressionType>(key + ".NodeType");
17:02:30  <FearTheCowboy> var type = message.GetValue<Type>(key + ".Type");
17:02:31  <FearTheCowboy> return Expression.MakeUnary(expressionType, operand, type, method);
17:02:31  <FearTheCowboy> }));
17:02:32  <FearTheCowboy>http://fearthecowboy.com/stuff/tmp-2012-05-15-100124-143c0001.html
17:02:34  <FearTheCowboy>grr
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17:33:20  <ender`><@FearTheCowboy> Impressive tho' gzip + Base64 is 1/3 the size of the XML itself. <-- you're reminding me of the horror when i had to help a coworker submit xml from a clipper application to a webservice (and no, the clipper app wasn't the wtf here - he had to output xml, gzip it, base64-encode it, put the resulting blob in another xml, escape the result so he could put it in a 3rd xml, and then submit that to the webservice)
17:33:35  <FearTheCowboy>OUCH
17:34:21  <virmitio>my eyes get a bit cross-eyed thinking about that
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17:35:09  <ender`>this was a few years before the yo dawg meme, otherwise i'm sure it'd be mentioned somewhere in the comments
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17:48:16  <FearTheCowboy>wwahammy -> how goes the Query...
17:49:06  <wwahammy>I'm not very far, I need to discuss something via Lync in a few minutes
17:49:15  <FearTheCowboy>ok
17:49:43  * virmitiosuspects that doom and despair are somehow involved...
17:50:38  <FearTheCowboy>virmitio -> https://join.microsoft.com/meet/garretts/91ZN45V2
18:36:56  <mgdm>ender`: whut le eff
18:37:19  <ender`>what? xml?
18:37:34  <mgdm>ender`: yeah
18:50:44  <FearTheCowboy>todays' less-than-stable build : http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp-1.2.0.266-any.msi
18:50:57  <FearTheCowboy>http://coapp.blob.core.windows.net/files/coapp.devtools-1.2.0.159-any.msi
18:54:34  <ender`>running without AV ... and it's stuck again
18:54:56  <ender`>oh, and done
18:55:46  <virmitio>how long was it stuck?
18:55:48  <ender`>so without AV, it was only stuck for about a minute
18:56:07  <ender`>i can see some I/O in process explorer
18:56:43  <ender`>(though it's attributed to system)
18:57:13  <virmitio>well, that's an improvement of previously, but doesn't explain everything
18:58:00  <virmitio>thanks for trying, at least
19:01:09  <dmex>ender`: You should try process monitor
19:01:18  <ender`>yeah
19:01:54  <dmex>least you'll know if it's doing any registry/disk activity
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21:25:24  <bob>does windows have a method of rewriting the page file into a contigous block at the end of the partition
21:25:45  <bob>or is it still a little self-fragmenting biotch
21:55:42  * bobdecides out of 16gb of ram he doesn't even need page file and donkey punches windows into submission
21:56:49  <virmitio>bob: my solution was to rig up a ramdrive with some of my spare memory and plant the temp files and paging file on that.
21:57:19  <bob>that sounds like a pretty slick idea.
21:57:32  <virmitio>since windows seems bound and determined to page things to the paging file even if more than half of the system ram is open
21:58:04  <virmitio>and some things just don't seem to like it when there's no paging file at all
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21:59:18  <bob>i have yet to ever see my system use more than 4GB of ram. to be honest, i am curious if windows is able to.
21:59:34  <bob>it shows i have the full 16, but never uses it.
22:00:34  <bob>i think i saw it hit 4.01GB use once when i had world of warcraft open.
22:03:37  <virmitio>what do you use the machine for? the only time I've ever needed more than about 3GB is when I've had multiple dev environments, a few long-term firefox windows, and Oblivion all trying to run at once
22:03:52  <bob>everything. its the alienware i bought with my tax refund.
22:04:03  <virmitio>right
22:04:29  <virmitio>yeah, I'd say siphon off at least 4GB to be a ramdrive for the paging and temp files
22:05:00  <virmitio>just make sure that anything you ever want to save from your temp files is copied elsewhere before you reboot the machine
22:05:11  <bob>i accidently created a 16,000in^2 image in photoshop once. but photoshop has its own disk cache system. that was bad.
22:05:24  <virmitio>lol
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