00:10:51  <FearTheCowboy>So, Windows on ARM is gonna be called Windows RT?
00:10:53  <FearTheCowboy>WTF?
00:11:04  <FearTheCowboy>Thaaaaats not confusing stuff.
00:12:33  * Afalpart
00:24:30  <madewokherd>so I can't have Windows RT on my desktop?
00:24:50  <FearTheCowboy>You can use WinRT on your desktop, but no, not Windows RT
00:24:54  <FearTheCowboy>*blink*
00:33:31  <auroraeosrose>wwwwttttffff
00:33:38  * madewokherdquit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:33:51  <FearTheCowboy>I actually think they *should* have called it Windows TF
00:34:50  <auroraeosrose>LOLOL
00:34:56  <Scotis>reminds me of Windows XP "built on Windows NT Technology" - NT stands for New Technology...New Technology technology... also who named NT? New Techology!?!? Great name! err....
00:35:32  <FearTheCowboy>Well, NT was originally named for OS/2 3.0 NT (way back when MS and IBM were both working on OS/2)
00:37:21  <Scotis>An acronym for New Technology associated with a software product is a FAIL IMO
00:39:49  <Scotis>Also - what is the next version of Windows RT going to be called? Windows RT 2? (which is Windows 9)...
00:40:08  <auroraeosrose>rt2d2?
00:40:11  <FearTheCowboy>probably Windows RT R2
00:40:15  <FearTheCowboy>lol
00:40:19  <Scotis>Windows RT 2 (built on Windows 9 Technology)
00:40:26  <FearTheCowboy>.NET
00:40:42  <auroraeosrose>mobile?
00:40:49  <Scotis>Live
00:41:01  <Scotis>2013
00:41:13  <auroraeosrose>windows rt r2 .NET mobile live 2014?
00:41:16  <Scotis>Wave 2.5
00:43:14  <Scotis>in all fairness it is a hard product to name - because ARM most likely won't only be used for mobile products going into the future - so calling it Windows 8 Tablet or Mobile or whatever wouldn't work...
00:43:51  <Scotis>i think 'Windows 8 Metro' could be ok...
00:44:17  <FearTheCowboy>I guess they already pissed away "Windows Mobile"
00:44:57  <Scotis>yeah...what is the diff between Windows 8 Mobile and Windows Phone 8?? confusing for the user
00:45:30  <FearTheCowboy>Well, and Windows Mobile was a version of Windows CE.
00:46:38  <Scotis>if they called Windows RT 'Windows 8 Mobile' - and then they had 'Windows Phone 8' - that would be confusing
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03:05:46  * gixquit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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03:41:26  <madewokherd>what does WinRT stand for again?
03:45:02  <FearTheCowboy>RunTime
03:45:16  <madewokherd>where does the Win come from?
03:45:22  <FearTheCowboy>Windows
03:45:55  <madewokherd>so, Windows RunTime abbreviates to WinRT but not Windows RT, but something else abbreviates to the second thing?
03:46:09  <FearTheCowboy>Yep.
03:46:21  <FearTheCowboy>Hey, don't look at me, I think it's all retarded
03:46:22  <madewokherd>do we know what the other RT is yet?
03:46:26  <madewokherd>I didn't see it anywhere
03:46:42  <FearTheCowboy>It's just like XP I guess
03:46:45  <FearTheCowboy>*sigh*
03:48:17  <madewokherd>I'm sure that stood for something
03:49:16  <madewokherd>wikipedia says "eXPerience"
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03:52:49  <madewokherd>whatever it's called, I just really hope it's not locked down
03:52:56  <madewokherd>good night
03:53:28  * madewokherdquit (Remote host closed the connection)
04:10:52  <dmex><@FearTheCowboy> Well, NT was originally named for OS/2 3.0 NT <--- Wasn't it much earlier from Cutler working on the N10 CPU, later moving to Microsoft who decided to call it NT?
04:11:36  * dmexis now confused about history
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06:35:20  <mpreisler>are you planning builder bots?
06:35:43  <mpreisler>I would gladly donate if I didn't have to keep VMs with various Windowses and various MSVC versions
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12:06:48  <ender|>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/17/windows_8_versions_announced_windows_rt_for_tablets/
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12:45:28  <FearTheCowboy>mpreisler -> Yes, we have a build automation server where we have vc6 - vc10 and gcc. We can spin up as many build VMs as we need-- we've got two 64proc servers which can host one hell of a lot of VMs.
12:48:00  <dmex>FearTheCowboy: any chance PH will be packaged in coapp? :P
12:49:24  <dmex>(seeing as it's a required base package)
12:49:27  <dmex>;)
12:51:53  <FearTheCowboy>I wonder if there will commercials for Windows RT with a bunch of people saying ... "Hey, this wasn't my idea!"
12:52:01  <FearTheCowboy>PH?
12:58:55  <dmex>ProcessHacker
12:59:08  <dmex>I would agree abotu WinRT
12:59:09  <FearTheCowboy>Ah, right.
12:59:32  <dmex>IMO Windows 8 will fail more than Vista... its sad.
12:59:56  <FearTheCowboy>Yes, I fully intend on building a PH package. Actually, if someone wanted to make a ptk build script and an .autopkg file, I'd publish it instantly.
13:00:15  * dmexthinks there was a autopkg somewhere
13:00:31  <FearTheCowboy>.autopkg is our format for making packages
13:00:36  <dmex>ah
13:00:41  <FearTheCowboy>it's not terribly difficult.
13:01:03  <dmex>I was thinking of the PortableApps.com format
13:01:14  <FearTheCowboy>ah. no, unrelated.
13:01:19  * dmexremoved a bunch of those files from the server last year
13:01:47  <FearTheCowboy>lemme take a quick look at the source...
13:02:56  <FearTheCowboy>oh hell, this'll be easy to package
13:04:38  <FearTheCowboy>do you know if the .sys files are embedded in the EXE, or are they installed seperately?
13:05:01  <dmex>seperate
13:05:18  <dmex>it's in the zip
13:05:55  <dmex>KPH.sys just needs to be in the same dir to load the kernel driver, doesn't actually matter if it's there or not but some features won't function
13:06:22  <dmex>if UAC is enabled and PH isn't elevated, it's not loaded
13:06:38  <FearTheCowboy>Ok, that's a cakewalk.
13:06:49  * dmexlooks at the 8 police in his driveway...
13:06:58  <dmex>wait, make that 9
13:07:05  <FearTheCowboy>about to get busted?
13:07:07  <FearTheCowboy>lol
13:07:58  <dmex>my brother was using his skateboard on the road........
13:08:27  <dmex>9 police were an appropriate response...
13:08:29  <FearTheCowboy>that's needs a 9 police ?
13:08:48  <dmex>aparently
13:08:59  <FearTheCowboy>holy cow. If all stuff built as cleanly as PH, this project would be done already.
13:09:11  <auroraeosrose>LOL
13:09:14  <auroraeosrose>yes!
13:10:27  <dmex>layout is simple
13:10:39  <dmex>ph.exe and kph.sys in the install dir
13:10:56  <dmex>folder called plugins, with plugins in that folder
13:11:15  <dmex>the bin isn't setup for that
13:11:50  <FearTheCowboy>and the kph.sys just builds straight away with the ddk ?
13:11:54  <dmex>so x86 and x64 need differnet scripts to ensure the X64 plugins are in the /plugins folder
13:11:55  <dmex>yep
13:12:50  <dmex>vice-versa X86 plugins need to be in the /plugins folder instead of the X64 plugins
13:13:05  <dmex>(if you make sense from that)
13:13:08  <dmex>:P
13:14:05  <FearTheCowboy>is there any reason to have x86 plugins installed in an x64 version?
13:14:14  <dmex>no
13:14:25  <FearTheCowboy>if I make two packages, that should be correct, right?
13:14:29  <dmex>yep
13:14:36  <FearTheCowboy>easy. as. pie.
13:14:59  <FearTheCowboy>although, now I gotta go make sure that ptk sets up the ddk build environment correctly. that's a 10 minute fiex.
13:15:07  <FearTheCowboy>fix
13:15:53  <FearTheCowboy>Hell, I should have this done & packaged before my third espresso this morning.
13:17:11  * dmexjust broke the project page :|
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13:35:15  <dmex>FearTheCowboy: are you going to build/sign the driver/exe/package?
13:38:20  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah,
13:38:20  <auroraeosrose>all coapp packages be signed yes
13:38:24  <FearTheCowboy>we sign EVERYTHING
13:38:44  <auroraeosrose>ack - speaking of
13:38:51  <auroraeosrose>tim around?
13:38:56  <FearTheCowboy>not yet.
13:39:02  <FearTheCowboy>it's still EAARLY
13:39:05  <auroraeosrose>can we add docs for how to generate a cert for self-signing?
13:39:10  <auroraeosrose>it's almost 10 for me - LOL
13:39:25  <auroraeosrose>and I have a 6am every day to make breakfast and do laundry - sigh
13:39:32  <dmex>(9:30pm here)
13:40:04  <FearTheCowboy>it's pretty easy to generate a self-signed cert now; I'll have him insert that into tthe docs somewhere.
13:40:16  <FearTheCowboy>I wrote a script for that; there's actually a package!
13:40:23  <auroraeosrose>hehe, I'm sure
13:40:35  <auroraeosrose>I'm just trying to make sure the docs will do step by step for EVERYTHING
13:40:44  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah
13:40:44  <auroraeosrose>so any idiot (me) can do a package easily
13:41:07  <auroraeosrose>the packaging docs mention you need a cert and a self-signed one is fine... but not how to make one ;)
13:44:35  <dmex>FearTheCowboy: heres a question, what happens when an app includes an updater?
13:45:14  <FearTheCowboy>well, since CoApp is handling updating of packages, updaters are really quite useless
13:45:34  <FearTheCowboy>we handle updates differently than most do anyway.
13:45:42  <dmex>you can removed the updater.dll plugin from PH if thats the case
13:45:45  <FearTheCowboy>ok
13:45:52  <dmex>removed/remove
13:45:53  <FearTheCowboy>will do
13:46:13  <dmex>nice and handy :)
13:46:42  <dmex>how will it work with other projects though
13:47:06  <dmex>if they update themselfs, won't that break the package?
13:47:08  <auroraeosrose>shallow fork
13:47:10  <auroraeosrose>hack it out
13:47:11  <auroraeosrose>sigh
13:47:15  <FearTheCowboy>well, we just won't include whatever update is in their project
13:47:24  <FearTheCowboy>most of the time, thats pretty easy
13:47:41  <FearTheCowboy>integrated updaters are a real pain in the ass
13:48:00  <auroraeosrose>yup
13:51:35  <dmex>it was one reason we made extras into plugins
13:51:55  <dmex>some might only want the basics, some everything
13:52:15  <dmex>it also helps if someone gets a crash, they can remove the plugins
13:53:33  <FearTheCowboy>well, in this case, I'll bundle in what's there.
13:54:04  <FearTheCowboy>except for the updater
13:54:49  <dmex>;)
13:56:03  <FearTheCowboy>oop. time to wake the wife and kids. Makin' waffles this morning...
13:57:11  <auroraeosrose>heh
13:57:27  <auroraeosrose>I do breakfast, husband does supper ;) works out good
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15:01:29  <mpreisler>FearTheCowboy: cool that build bots are in the grand scheme of things :) I seriously need to try to build some packages, I was midway but had to postpone due to other obligations
15:01:45  <mpreisler>building windows SDKs from Linux without Windows and MSVC licenses is the dream ;-)
15:12:24  <auroraeosrose>hehe
15:12:32  <auroraeosrose>push code to repo - wait for coapp build?
15:12:47  <FearTheCowboy>that's the likely scenario
15:13:18  <auroraeosrose>might be smart to have testing builds/snapshots available then too though ;)
15:13:24  * virmitiois contemplating really crazy schemes for build automation
15:13:50  <auroraeosrose>sweet
15:13:56  <auroraeosrose>virmitio: did you see my earlier request?
15:14:04  <auroraeosrose>the packaging docs mention you need a cert and a self-signed one is fine... but not how to make one
15:14:10  <virmitio>probably not, I only just got here
15:14:18  <FearTheCowboy>virmitio and I were just talking about making a feed for test/beta packages
15:14:31  <virmitio>auroraeosrose: yeah, I'm realizing that
15:14:46  <FearTheCowboy>and setting the threshold for packages on install to default to 0 (so that packages where stable < 0 would not be picked up automatically)
15:14:59  <auroraeosrose>yeah....
15:15:39  <auroraeosrose>also - any examples of .buildinfo files that have to build and then run an .exe for testing?
15:15:48  <auroraeosrose>just name a repo already doing it and I can look it up ;)
15:16:11  <virmitio>is it an exe made during the build?
15:16:21  <auroraeosrose>not usually
15:16:35  <auroraeosrose>it appears it builds as it's own test .exe and is then run
15:16:38  <auroraeosrose>(weee!)
15:16:43  <auroraeosrose>it depends on the build!
15:16:54  <virmitio>fair
15:16:56  <auroraeosrose>this is for re2c
15:17:00  <auroraeosrose>so you build re2c
15:17:07  <auroraeosrose>then you run it to generate test .c files
15:17:12  <auroraeosrose>then compile and run them to test
15:17:13  <virmitio>one sec, I'll find one where I needed to do something similar
15:17:37  <virmitio>ok, maybe not as similar as desired for that, but it can be managed
15:17:56  <auroraeosrose>bison will have the same "fun"
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15:31:30  <dmex>FearTheCowboy: searchable feed?
15:32:02  <dmex>packages.xml?q=partialpackagename
15:35:20  <FearTheCowboy>not yet.
15:35:50  <FearTheCowboy>We'll be able to include that in the future; right now all filtering/searching is done on the client side.
15:36:50  * FearTheCowboyis just adding in wdk support for compiling with the wdk kit right now.
15:37:57  * auroraeosrosejoined
15:43:03  <dmex>http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/04/16/announcing-the-windows-8-editions.aspx
15:43:11  <dmex>yay back to two versions
15:43:14  <FearTheCowboy>Four
15:43:24  <dmex>ah, ARM
15:43:29  <FearTheCowboy>Windows, WindowsPro, Windows RT and Windows Enterprise
15:43:41  <FearTheCowboy>I love how the blog post skipped the 'enterprise'
15:43:43  <FearTheCowboy>FFS
15:44:19  <FearTheCowboy>like I said last night, I guess we should be thankful they didn't call it "Windows TF"
15:44:23  <FearTheCowboy>for the ARM version
15:44:36  <FearTheCowboy>XP is Win5.1 right?
15:44:40  <dmex>speaking of, if there's a bug in the SDK, are you able to have it looked at?
15:44:41  <dmex>yes
15:44:57  <FearTheCowboy>Is 2003 5.2 or just a 5.1 variant?
15:45:12  <dmex>x64 is 5.2
15:45:25  <dmex>not entirely sure about 2k3 x86
15:45:25  <FearTheCowboy>Truthfully, it's faster to log SDK bugs thru the visual studio section on connect.microsoft.com
15:45:32  <dmex>yeah already have
15:45:35  <FearTheCowboy>that's where I actually end up putting mine
15:45:45  <FearTheCowboy>internally, I don't get near the response :S
15:45:54  <FearTheCowboy>Found an SDK bug did you?
15:46:00  * dmexisn't surprised
15:46:05  <FearTheCowboy>virmitio and I found one last week too.
15:46:22  <dmex>yeah, the Filtering Platform headers have a bunch of spaces in the macros
15:46:40  <dmex>spaces/newlines
15:46:55  <FearTheCowboy>niiice
15:47:17  <dmex>works great, ensures you don't use them
15:47:55  <FearTheCowboy>ffs.
15:48:17  <dmex>I've been working on a new PH plugin to show windows firewall/filtering platform activity like dropped/blocked/accepted connections
15:48:46  <FearTheCowboy>Last week we found that if you define "NOUSER" and "ISOLATION_AWARE_ENABLED" it still trys to declare functions you don't ask for (and didn't get the structs for) ...
15:49:00  <FearTheCowboy>ooh. that'll be cool
15:50:30  <dmex>what I like the most is how C is the most popular programming language by far, and VS doesn't even properly support C98
15:50:58  <dmex>I even have to #undef __cplusplus just so intellisence shows the C defines
15:51:13  <FearTheCowboy>C99?
15:51:21  <dmex>lol
15:51:38  <FearTheCowboy>We're all a tad pissed about the lack of C99 support
15:52:05  <dmex>no plans to support the next standard either (I think it's finalized this year)
15:52:21  <FearTheCowboy>"Hi: the feedback we receive from our users again and again is that we should focus on C++ (especially the new upcoming C++-0x Standard) - and that is what we do. Having said that we have been, slowly, adding C-99 features over time - and we may continue to add a few more features over time.
15:52:21  <FearTheCowboy>Jonathan Caves
15:52:21  <FearTheCowboy>Visual C++ Compiler Team"
15:52:40  <FearTheCowboy>http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2089423-c99-support
15:52:42  <FearTheCowboy>VOTE HERE
15:52:47  <auroraeosrose>for you all to laugh at
15:52:48  <auroraeosrose>http://news.php.net/php.internals/60058
15:53:48  <auroraeosrose>http://news.php.net/php.internals/60075
15:54:06  <mgdm>auroraeosrose: "Less bitching, more fixing" embodied in stats?
15:54:14  <dmex>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C11_(C_standard_revision)
15:54:15  <auroraeosrose>I love rasmus
15:54:25  <dmex>wait, it was finalized last year?
15:54:53  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, C11 is done
15:54:57  <dmex>December 8, 2011
15:55:06  <FearTheCowboy>most of it's in Dev11 (vc2012?)
15:55:28  <FearTheCowboy>acutally, they did not a bad job getting a ton in VC10 for the time.
15:55:37  * wwahammy_joined
15:55:50  <FearTheCowboy>but the lack of C99 makes it impossible to build stuff like VLC with Visual Studio
15:56:22  <dmex>the intellisense issues with C/C++/MC++ was good too
15:56:35  <dmex>nothing for mc, ctrl+space for C
15:56:43  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, there's a few worth voting on.
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15:56:56  <dmex>vs11 fixed all those
15:57:21  <FearTheCowboy>EVERYONE DRINK >> "auroraeosrose1 (...) has joined #coapp"
15:57:34  * FearTheCowboylikes to play the #coapp drinking game
15:58:00  <mgdm>FearTheCowboy: is this one that laughs at auroraeosrose's poor internets?
15:58:09  <FearTheCowboy>Yep
15:58:15  <mgdm>heh
15:58:37  * auroraeosrosequit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
15:58:45  * virmitioneeds to go get another drink...
15:59:54  * auroraeosrosejoined
16:00:31  <FearTheCowboy>auroraeosrose -> it's official now: https://github.com/coapp/coapp.org/wiki/Coapp-drinking-game
16:00:45  <FearTheCowboy>tee-hee
16:01:28  * auroraeosrose1quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
16:02:23  * auroraeosrose1joined
16:02:37  <auroraeosrose1>this is getting ridiculous
16:02:39  * virmitioneeds to go get yet another drink...
16:02:44  <auroraeosrose1>hate hate drivers
16:02:47  <auroraeosrose1>fucking ARGH
16:04:20  * auroraeosrosequit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16:04:29  <auroraeosrose1>how come there's nothing from virmitio in there ;)
16:04:33  * auroraeosrose1changed nick to auroraeosrose
16:05:02  * virmitiois too busy playing the drinking game to participate in writing it
16:06:10  <FearTheCowboy>Feel free to add more rules
16:07:22  <auroraeosrose>but wait - there's more
16:07:27  <auroraeosrose>oooh ooh -add that one
16:08:37  <virmitio>updated the rules
16:08:45  <FearTheCowboy>nice
16:08:58  <virmitio>#5 is going to keep me well hydrated
16:09:26  <auroraeosrose>updated ;)
16:12:39  <virmitio>this cannot end well
16:12:50  <auroraeosrose>oh it'll end well all right
16:12:52  <auroraeosrose>on the floor!
16:18:59  <FearTheCowboy>the really sweet thing about ptk is how you never have to 'set' the environment ... it takes care of all that crap no matter what you're building.
16:19:43  <dmex>If I'm building a house, does it also 'set' the environment?
16:19:47  <FearTheCowboy>yep.
16:19:54  <dmex>Awsome
16:20:13  * dmexneeds a spell check
16:20:17  <FearTheCowboy>Unfortunately, the SDK for building houses is broken :p
16:20:57  <dmex>Damn, I wanted to set the environment to warm with seaside views...
16:22:06  <vpovirk>you can't get mingw AND windows sdk at the same time
16:22:33  <vpovirk>which is probably a good thing
16:23:37  <FearTheCowboy>Well, you can set the SDK, but I beleive that pretty much everything in the environment gets overwritten by mingw, so , yeah, you can't.
16:23:53  <FearTheCowboy>if there is something that I should do to allow that sort of thing, I can do that tho'
16:28:25  <dmex>can't make something like the Windows SDK Configuration Tool?
16:28:54  <dmex>(that hasn't been broken for almost two years)
16:29:13  <FearTheCowboy>ptk does everything we need.
16:29:22  <FearTheCowboy>you dont' need such things with ptk builds anymore at all
16:29:41  <dmex>ah
16:30:24  <FearTheCowboy>ptk automatically discovers and configures the environment for VC6 -> VC10 and GCC, SDKs 6,7,7.1 and the WDK
17:04:53  <ender`>has anybody tried to activate Remote Desktop Licensing Server on their MSDN subscription? :)
17:05:16  <virmitio>not yet
17:08:43  <ender`>i've been trying for the last 2 days. yesterday no activations could be done at all, because they got some new systems, and they don't work, and today they were using the old systems again (because those do work), and it turns out that nobody knows about how to do such activation
17:23:35  <FearTheCowboy>dmex -> I've nearly got the PH package done.
17:23:47  <dmex>o_O
17:24:20  <dmex>while you've been doing that, I've been updating the rapps package manager for ReactOS: http://processhacker.sourceforge.net/test/index.php
17:24:22  <dmex>:P
17:25:46  <dmex>the sad thing, it downloads a cab file full of txt files and parses out package information using a custom delimiter format....
17:26:01  <FearTheCowboy>eeeew
17:26:23  <dmex>yeah, I decided to help em out and update it
17:27:27  <dmex>they love enough to sign our kernel driver for x86, yet don't implement NT keyed events enabling it to run on ROS
17:27:34  <dmex>PH^
17:28:13  <dmex>it would actually run under wine on linux if it also implemented keyed events
17:36:38  <FearTheCowboy>dmex -> so, for the x64 version, the plugins subdirectory is still called 'plugins'?
17:41:17  <dmex>yes
17:43:37  <dmex>In the zip\plugins directory, theres two folders, x86, x64... if you're using the x64 executable, you must extract the zip\plugins\x64 dll's into the \plugins folder
17:43:58  <ender`><dmex> they love enough to sign our kernel driver for x86, yet don't implement NT keyed events enabling it to run on ROS <- which driver?
17:44:10  <dmex>KProcessHacker.sys
17:44:14  <ender`>oh
17:44:33  <dmex>typo, not x86, it's for x64
17:44:35  * ender`has a kmode-enabled certificate, too
17:45:04  <dmex>with windows 8 we're considing one for the executable
17:45:07  <ender`>(and i sign open-source drivers on request)
17:45:16  <ender`>you don't sign the executable?
17:45:33  <dmex>that fullscreen smartscreen thing on windows 8 is bloody annoying to run unsigned executables
17:45:37  <FearTheCowboy>my build for processhacker is signing everything now.
17:45:40  <dmex>no, we don't have our own cert
17:45:53  <ender`>at least get certum's certificate, even though the process is slightly annoying
17:46:07  <dmex>I had trouble with the german
17:46:14  <dmex>(if thats the same site)
17:46:21  <ender`>it's polish
17:47:10  <dmex>I wonder what happened to verisign's annoucement just over a year ago about offering free certs for OSS
17:47:29  <FearTheCowboy>verisign got bought by symantec.
17:47:36  <FearTheCowboy>it's a dead-end
17:47:43  <dmex>verisign? yes.
17:48:21  <FearTheCowboy>yep
17:48:26  <dmex>wait, was it your or someone else from Microsoft who mentioned something for OSS certs?
17:48:33  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, that's me
17:48:45  <FearTheCowboy>We're going to add in support for the CACert root fairly soon
17:49:00  <FearTheCowboy>so apps can be signed with certs you can get for free with CACert
17:49:07  <dmex>via coapp or the rootcert cab update?
17:50:17  <FearTheCowboy>We're going to integrate their root cert into our bootstrapper
17:51:27  <dmex>ah, I was talking about the one CAPI silently downloads on windows every so often
17:52:02  <FearTheCowboy>no, we're not going to get it into the root cert update process.
17:54:02  <virmitio>auroraeosrose: got the doc up for making self-signed certs and added links to the forking instructions
17:55:02  <ender`>i've been using certum's free certificates for my open-source stuff since XP SP2 was released. it's slightly annoying to sign up, since pages randomly switch to polish, but other than that, i never had any problems
17:55:47  <dmex>I think the other thing was their certs showing our full name
17:55:57  <ender`>(i've also been sending them the same scan of my passport for the past 7 years)
17:59:09  <ender`>btw, speaking of Process Hacker, would it be possible to add setting of text color, too?
18:03:50  <dmex>to where?
18:04:16  <dmex>(there's alot of text elements)
18:05:49  <dmex>I have been playing with text color though: http://i.imgur.com/Ztga8.png
18:06:22  <FearTheCowboy>dmex -> what is one of the functions that needs the kph driver?
18:06:28  <ender`>right now only the background can be set for hilighting, and colour seems to be automatically set to black or white, depending on background. i like dark backgrounds, but white text it a bit too bright for me
18:06:56  <ender`>( this is my colour scheme: http://eternallybored.org/imgs/thebat.png )
18:07:10  * ender`waits for "my eyes!" screams
18:07:12  <dmex>FearTheCowboy: if KPH is available, all NT functions are routed via KPH
18:07:26  <dmex>if it's not available, we use the NTAPI
18:07:31  <FearTheCowboy>how can I tell if it's available?
18:07:38  <FearTheCowboy>(just checking my build...)
18:07:43  <virmitio>ender`: looks pretty pleasant to me
18:08:07  <ender`>virmitio: the only two reactions i get are "that's nice" and "my eyes!"
18:08:11  <dmex>there's a few ways, depends what is appropriate
18:08:40  <FearTheCowboy>does the 'disk' tab work without the driver?
18:10:53  <dmex>Yes, also to detect KPH you could CreateFile > \Device\KProcessHacker2, enum the service list or hit the services key for the count(??) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\services\KProcessHacker2\Enum
18:11:04  <ender`>(speaking of colours, i wouldn't mind being able to change all other bright backgrounds to something dark, but since i rarely have to look at those lists, they're nowhere nearly as annoying)
18:11:22  <dmex>(note, I think thats the wrong ControlSet key)
18:11:31  <ender`>CurrentControlSet
18:11:52  <ender`>(though AFAIK, CCS is usually just a symlink to ControlSet001)
18:12:21  <FearTheCowboy>or, I could just look in the services tab in ph and find the kprocesshacker device driver :)
18:12:51  <FearTheCowboy>it appears my PH package works :)
18:12:56  <dmex>I'l still surprised regedit doesn't include symlink support... god help you if you delete a simlink key mapped to something critical...
18:13:09  <ender`>hah
18:13:13  <FearTheCowboy>dmex -> found a bug in PH...
18:13:21  <dmex>o_O?
18:13:30  <ender`>btw, why don't you extract the driver from resource on demand?
18:13:48  <dmex>too bloaty
18:14:25  <FearTheCowboy>when searching for the relative path for the driver + plugins, you need get the actual path of the module itself ... if I run it from a symlink, it's not finding the driver/plugins
18:14:58  <dmex>1mb exe becomes > 4mb, also no guarantee the extraction will work properly on some setups
18:15:13  <dmex>interesting
18:16:06  <FearTheCowboy>it's a common bug when running something from a symlink
18:16:13  <ender`>dmex: but then i'd be able to just put the executable on my server and run it (almost) directly :)
18:16:19  <ender`>(i love live.sysinternals.com)
18:16:43  <dmex>it's also smb accessible
18:16:46  <ender`>dmex: why wouldn't it work reliably? just write to %TEMP%
18:16:47  <FearTheCowboy>ender` -> you'll have a coapp package in a few minutes
18:17:27  <dmex>ender: situations like the symlink bug
18:17:50  <ender`>hmm, let's see what happens if i symlink lspci
18:18:10  <dmex>btw, you can enter \\live.sysinternals.com in explorer and browse the netbios (WebDAV??) share/run the executables directly
18:18:22  <ender`>...works fine
18:18:51  <ender`>(though with lspci, the driver is loaded by a dll from it's own resource)
18:20:07  <ender`>hah, Service DirectIO has been deleted
18:20:27  <dmex>FearTheCowboy: what are repo steps?
18:20:41  <dmex>symlink a dir, extract and run PH from the symlink?
18:20:53  <FearTheCowboy>no,
18:21:01  <FearTheCowboy>mkdir c:
18:21:02  <FearTheCowboy>er
18:21:04  <FearTheCowboy>one sec
18:22:17  <dmex>you would have more problems than PH if you needed to mkdir C:
18:22:19  <dmex>:P
18:22:26  <FearTheCowboy>1. create a directory c:\foo
18:22:26  <FearTheCowboy>2. put PH in a folder 'c:\bar'
18:22:26  <FearTheCowboy>3. mklink c:\foo\processhacker.exe c:\bar\processhacker.exe
18:22:26  <FearTheCowboy>(make sure that c:\bar\ is not in the path)
18:22:26  <FearTheCowboy>4. run processhacker c:\foo\processhacker.exe
18:23:25  <ender`>wouldn't you need to symlink the driver, too?
18:23:32  <dmex>for reference, if you inspect the process properties for PH, what is the command line and current directory?
18:24:11  <dmex>(e.g. is NT telling us we're in foo or bar)
18:24:13  <ender`>dmex: btw, one reason why i put the driver for lspci in a resource is to be able to run the thing directly off the network (usually you can't access the files on network anonymously)
18:24:27  <FearTheCowboy>http://fearthecowboy.com/stuff/2012-04-17-112339-21a00007.png
18:24:52  <FearTheCowboy>in my example, processhacker was run from c:\programdata\bin\processhacker.exe
18:24:53  <dmex>well thats an off command line :O
18:24:57  <dmex>off/odd
18:25:06  <FearTheCowboy>it's in my path
18:25:16  <ender`>windows is weird when it comes to both symlinks and hardlinks
18:25:21  <ender`>(when you run programs)
18:25:26  * auroraeosrose1joined
18:25:26  <FearTheCowboy>so if c:\foo was in the path, this is what you'd see
18:26:32  <ender`>eg. i have PH in O:\Drivers\Software\ProcessHacker\x64\ProcessHacker.exe, and i hardlinked that to O:\Drivers\Software\ProcessHacker\ProcessHacker.exe. Image File is still "O:\Drivers\Software\ProcessHacker\x64\ProcessHacker.exe"
18:26:54  <dmex>plugin.c, line 267
18:26:57  <dmex>:)
18:27:42  <ender`>i first noticed that with Process Explorer and nvidia control panel, when i tried hardlinking some programs to run them with different settings
18:27:57  <ender`>had to actually copy them to be able to get the settings to apply
18:28:34  * auroraeosrosequit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:28:35  <dmex>we read the path/commandline direct from NtQuerySystemInformation
18:29:36  <ender`>hmm, what happens if i hardlink the hardlink and then delete the original source of the first hardlink
18:29:36  <dmex>for plugins, we use CreateFile with a relative path (or if it's not relative, we call RtlDetermineDosPathNameType and check)
18:30:27  <FearTheCowboy>hardlinks are just refcounted links to the same physical file
18:30:34  <FearTheCowboy>if you delete one, nothing happens to the second one.
18:30:50  <dmex>(unless its a reg symlink)
18:31:11  <ender`>iiinteresting
18:31:54  <ender`>it seems that it always assigns one of the files as "primary", and Image Path will always return that file (if you delete it, the first remaining hardlink that you run will be then always Image Path)
18:33:08  <dmex>it would probably be easier to implement your own FS driver that does the mappings
18:33:35  <ender`>even more interesting: if i move (rather than delete) the file that was shown in Image File, the old path remains there when I run the program again, and Process Hacker doesn't show the file information (including icon)
18:34:09  <ender`>http://eternallybored.org/Image1.png
18:34:19  <dmex>there's actually a corner case with NTOS there
18:35:30  <dmex>I forget what triggers it but ntos will 'cache'?? an incorrect image filepath
18:35:42  <ender`>though Process Explorer does show the correct paths
18:35:50  <dmex>it won't update even if you exit the process
18:36:01  <dmex>yep
18:36:20  <dmex>procxp doesn't use this class to enumerate process paths
18:36:56  <dmex>if you notice, PH shows the image filepath even without elevation, while procxp doesn't
18:37:11  <ender`>but I remember PE showing the original hardlink name with other hardlinks in the past (and nvidia's control panel similarly didn't see hardlinked executables as distinct programs)
18:41:31  <dmex>http://www.oldify.net/
18:41:49  * dmexlooks for photo's of friends
18:42:26  <FearTheCowboy>Process Hacker is now packaged: http://coapp.org/pages/packages.html
18:47:04  <dmex>http://i.imgur.com/53YHU.png
18:47:22  <dmex>for some reason, it's showing some invisible dialog
18:47:58  * dmexkills the process
18:48:05  <ender`>dmex: patience
18:48:15  <auroraeosrose1>HA - someone else can break it!
18:48:19  * auroraeosrose1changed nick to auroraeosrose
18:48:21  <ender`>if it's the first time you install a coapp package, it can sometimes take several minutes
18:48:41  <dmex>thats silly...
18:48:47  <auroraeosrose>heh
18:48:51  <FearTheCowboy>I've still got some debugging to do on the bootstrapper
18:48:53  <auroraeosrose>what takes so long the first time?
18:49:08  <FearTheCowboy>I think it's spending a lot of time scanning the installed MSIs
18:49:15  <auroraeosrose>might be nice to have a log people can look at "I can't contact the place to get the msi"
18:49:17  <FearTheCowboy>I need to be able to do that to know the state of the system
18:49:32  <FearTheCowboy>*sigh*
18:50:04  <FearTheCowboy>I'd take patches :
18:50:06  <FearTheCowboy>:)
18:50:09  <dmex>Temp\Installer.5600.exe is just sitting on %5 cpu, doing...something...
18:50:26  <ender`>http://eternallybored.org/imgs/cats/P1040052.jpg
18:50:27  <FearTheCowboy>5% ...sound like it's doing *something* ...
18:50:50  <FearTheCowboy>do you have a lot of software installed?
18:50:59  <FearTheCowboy>(and possibly, a slow drive?)
18:51:06  <dmex>45, CoApp.Bootstrapper.SingleStep.InstallerStageTwo(System.AppDomain) + 0x260 <-- 0x7ff001488d0
18:51:22  <dmex>SSD, I don't install much on my dev machine
18:51:25  <FearTheCowboy>HMM.
18:51:36  <dmex>introduces variables during development
18:52:09  * ender`uses VMs with snapshots for dev
18:52:28  <dmex>some retarded app does something, changes X, later when I'm implementing or testing something, I find i've done it wrong thanks to X
18:52:46  * dmexlooks at registry cleaners
18:53:05  <FearTheCowboy>is it still stuck running?
18:53:10  <dmex>yes
18:53:16  <FearTheCowboy>grrrr.
18:53:18  <FearTheCowboy>kill it.
18:53:31  <FearTheCowboy>http://coapp.org/cleaner
18:53:32  <FearTheCowboy>run that
18:53:38  <FearTheCowboy>as admin
18:53:40  <dmex>that invisible window prevents me from clicking cancel...
18:54:02  <FearTheCowboy>just kill the process
18:54:15  <FearTheCowboy>from the task manager
18:54:59  <dmex>http://i.imgur.com/mLvTm.png
18:55:17  <dmex>that installer window is the invisible one
18:55:26  <dmex>really shouldn't be parented
18:56:23  <dmex>http://i.imgur.com/uLaCM.png
18:56:27  <dmex>^crash
18:56:42  <FearTheCowboy>dammit
18:56:50  * FearTheCowboyhates the bootstrapper.
18:57:34  <auroraeosrose>take two drinks
18:57:41  <FearTheCowboy>LOL
18:58:22  <dmex>InvokeFuture ---> Crash
18:59:09  <dmex>I think someone jinxed it ;)
18:59:24  <auroraeosrose>it's future garrett!
19:00:31  <FearTheCowboy>Well, this is honestly a new one.
19:00:38  <FearTheCowboy>Hasn't failed *here* before.
19:00:59  <FearTheCowboy>look in the eventviewer
19:01:07  <FearTheCowboy>look in the coapp category
19:01:40  <FearTheCowboy>(or run the whole thing with dbgview running)
19:01:50  <FearTheCowboy>there should be an error in the eventviewer
19:02:02  <FearTheCowboy>from coapp.service
19:02:09  <dmex>System.IndexOutOfRangeException - Index was outside the bounds of the array.
19:02:16  <FearTheCowboy>WHAT?
19:02:17  <FearTheCowboy>FFS
19:02:23  <FearTheCowboy>is there a stacktrace ?
19:02:35  <dmex>thats was 9s after the event: ==[Trying to start Win32 Service]==
19:02:49  <dmex>nope, thats the entire log message
19:02:55  <FearTheCowboy>check the details for a stacktrace
19:03:30  <FearTheCowboy>ggrrrrr
19:03:57  <dmex>http://pastebin.com/s1AXgVsT
19:04:00  * Jonny5quit (Quit: Leaving.)
19:04:10  <dmex>its 'In Bytes'
19:04:41  <dmex>dunno why
19:05:46  <dmex>Engine.DoPackageComposition
19:05:53  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I can see this
19:06:35  <dmex>did you convert the stack into integers?
19:07:01  <ender`>btw, FearTheCowboy, the cleaner has (nearly) white background, but uses system text colour
19:08:07  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I just dump the stack into a bytearray; I don't usually need to see this...
19:08:18  <dmex>oh, before I forget again, no the disk tab runs without KPH
19:08:34  <dmex>it uses ETW which requires elevation
19:08:37  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I noticed, it was the missing plugin that caused it to not find it :)
19:09:01  <dmex>I ran the cleaner, same thing happened
19:09:15  * _Andrewquit (Quit: sleep)
19:09:27  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, I've got a fault in the composition rules ... just trying to see how to find it.
19:10:00  <ender`>also, should i reboot after using the cleaner?
19:10:06  <FearTheCowboy>no, it's not needed
19:10:16  <dmex>one handy thing with PH, it'll show .net stacks with the native stacks while inspecting threads
19:10:19  <ender`>well, in that case i can't install PH
19:10:43  <dmex>if you have some symbols, I can dump the threads
19:11:30  <dmex>(dunno if you can just throw them up on the MS symbol server, probably windows only)
19:11:45  <FearTheCowboy>not handy...
19:11:49  <dmex>:P
19:13:01  <FearTheCowboy>hang on, I'm gonna try and see if I can replicate this.
19:14:51  <dmex>does it help knowing the CoApp.Service created two \Device\NamedPipe\CoAppInstaller pipes?
19:15:01  <FearTheCowboy>that's common
19:15:45  <FearTheCowboy>can you install http://coapp.org/install
19:15:51  <FearTheCowboy>or does that do the same thing?
19:16:39  <dmex>same thing but nothing
19:16:55  <dmex>I just see two UAC prompts, installer becomes idle
19:17:04  <dmex>(and invisible)
19:17:15  <FearTheCowboy>it's failing the same way. That's *good* I guess
19:18:07  <dmex>if I delete the service, terminate the process, the installer recreates it but does nohting
19:18:28  <dmex>terminate the service process^
19:18:43  <ender`>is it a good thing if i tell you it's doing the same for me?
19:19:25  <dmex>I's say the installer is stuck trying to communicate with the service
19:19:33  <FearTheCowboy>Yes; I see where It's going awry...
19:19:52  <FearTheCowboy>it's stuck because the service returns an exception during an unlikely spot
19:20:12  <FearTheCowboy>and the UI is actually not quite finished... I haven't put in hardly anythng off the happy path
19:20:24  <dmex>one reason why we rewrote PH from C# into C was exceptions
19:20:36  <FearTheCowboy>LOL
19:20:51  <dmex>there was also the mashalling problems
19:21:07  <FearTheCowboy>I'd like to have written this in C++, but I really need Linq and the TPL.
19:21:12  <dmex>well, on alot of poeples machines, the runtime would be corrupted for one reason or another
19:21:15  <auroraeosrose>you don't NEED it
19:21:17  <auroraeosrose>;)
19:21:36  <dmex>you could probably write the service as native
19:21:38  <ender`>oh, it actually went through
19:21:46  <auroraeosrose>service would probably be nice native
19:21:59  <dmex>it's using 41mb atm
19:22:02  <ender`>[and it's now offering me to (X) Remove (X) Cancel]
19:22:05  <FearTheCowboy>I think I've found it.
19:22:58  <FearTheCowboy>Well, I can't see how this didn't blow up before. dag nabbit
19:23:45  <auroraeosrose>every time garrett says "how did this work before"
19:24:23  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. no, that's not it.
19:24:51  <vpovirk>I would've gone with "run coapp cleaner"
19:27:00  <ender`>nice text effect: http://eternallybored.org/Image1.gif :)
19:29:10  <dmex>actually
19:29:15  <FearTheCowboy>dmex -> do you have VC11 or .NET 4.5 installed?
19:29:19  <dmex>no
19:29:49  <dmex>I did run into a problem last week with coapp
19:30:15  <dmex>when I tried it last month, I disabled the service
19:30:26  <dmex>when I tried it again last week, it wanted to update
19:30:36  <FearTheCowboy>that's fine. the cleaner deletes the service anyway
19:30:50  <dmex>the update worked but the toolkit itself was crashing
19:31:06  <dmex>it may be that some stuff is still on here
19:31:20  <FearTheCowboy>when it updates, the command line stops; but that's not really a functional problem.
19:32:18  <dmex>I guess it depends of the cleaner also removes anything from older versions
19:32:21  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. I've never seen a case where a List<> can throw an IndexOutOfRangeException as a result of going to far in a foreach
19:32:30  <FearTheCowboy>the cleaner removes *everything*
19:33:08  <dmex>the C# compiler makes the anonymous .ForEach a for loop of sorts
19:34:59  <dmex>oh
19:35:25  <dmex>if your anon function throws an exception, it can throw on the for
19:35:39  <dmex>http://pastebin.com/5KkR14nG
19:35:57  <dmex>thats the reflect for System.Collections.Generic.List<T>
19:36:41  <dmex>it also depends how you access the item
19:37:23  <dmex>if you inherit the list class and access the item using [i], it can throw there
19:38:02  <dmex>http://pastebin.com/6RZrM6FA
19:39:22  <dmex>so if you enherit the class, you also need to preform the index >= count check and bail before accessing the item if you don't want it throwing
19:39:34  <FearTheCowboy>I'm not doing anything like that at all
19:39:37  <FearTheCowboy>I'm not even close to that
19:42:20  <FearTheCowboy>Win7/x64
19:42:21  <FearTheCowboy>?
19:42:52  <dmex>yes
19:43:21  <FearTheCowboy>try running sysinterals' dbgview and running it again
19:43:32  <FearTheCowboy>there's gotta be soemthing else I can't see
19:43:44  <dmex>the future?
19:43:48  <FearTheCowboy>lol
19:44:24  * piscisaureus_quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
19:45:10  <dmex>why the x86/x64 msi packages?
19:45:32  <dmex>what the
19:45:35  <dmex>it worked this time
19:45:38  <FearTheCowboy>FFS.
19:46:01  <FearTheCowboy>that's not nice.
19:46:04  <FearTheCowboy>:S
19:46:30  <dmex>server connection issue? :|
19:46:36  <ender|>yeah, it worked the second time for me, too
19:46:54  <ender|>(although i did get a funny text effect: http://eternallybored.org/Image1.gif )
19:47:03  <FearTheCowboy>no; there's not any network communication going on at that pojnt
19:47:27  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, that's my poor-mans-forcing-wpf-to-dowhat_i-want.
19:48:24  <dmex>http://pastebin.com/X7xJ5Nz8
19:49:29  <dmex>I ran the cleaner after the first crash when you suggested it, not the second or third but again this time
19:50:28  <dmex>I also deleted the coapp service before running the cleaner this time
19:51:41  <dmex>o_O you signed all the plugins too
19:51:46  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, why not?
19:52:13  * ssam2quit (Remote host closed the connection)
19:52:14  <dmex>we could implement secure plugin loading with that
19:52:32  <dmex>dont load if it's not signed etc...
19:52:54  <FearTheCowboy>hmmm..... how old of version of CoApp did you have instlled before?
19:54:02  <FearTheCowboy>I gotta stop for some lunch... I'll be back in a bit.
19:54:11  <dmex>december/january before it updated last week
19:57:23  <dmex>ah
19:57:26  <dmex>another thing
19:57:47  <dmex>I removed a bunch of symlinks in ProgramData a few days ago
19:58:01  <dmex>now I know those were from coapp :|
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20:05:44  <dmex>if I run the PH setup again, the installer outright crashes
20:06:56  <dmex>still shows a UAC prompt and displayes the package information
20:12:05  <dmex>if I run the cleaner then try installing the package again, it hangs on starting the service
20:13:05  <dmex>the event is also logged again: System.IndexOutOfRangeException - Index was outside the bounds of the array.
20:22:53  <dmex>yep, crashed with the same exception
20:23:13  <virmitio>yay for consistancy
20:23:28  <dmex>[3300] ┬╗RawData: at CoApp.Toolkit.Engine.Client.PackageManager.<>c__DisplayClass3.<Connect>b__1()
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