00:00:15  * wwahammyquit (Quit: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...)
00:03:02  <HamishC>ok its stuck again, and dbgview looks like http://interblag.net.nz/files/tmp/dbgview1.png
00:03:37  <FearTheCowboy>one line?
00:03:56  <HamishC>yep
00:04:19  <FearTheCowboy>ok, I'll see if I can figure that out
00:05:51  <HamishC>it only get stuck sometimes tho which seems odd. I have another local feed filled with packages that I've generated if that helps
00:06:08  <FearTheCowboy>that shouldn't make a difference at all
00:08:07  <HamishC>it got stuck half way through this time http://interblag.net.nz/files/tmp/coapp1.LOG
00:08:47  <FearTheCowboy>that shows me the same pic
00:09:39  <HamishC>should be a log file
00:09:55  <FearTheCowboy>ah
00:09:58  <FearTheCowboy>downloaded it :S
00:11:40  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. there's soemthig giving it trouble connecting. I'll look at that right now
00:12:26  <FearTheCowboy>try running: start coapp.service --interactive
00:13:01  <FearTheCowboy>(by the way , click 'capture global' in debugview
00:17:23  <FearTheCowboy>ah. I think I found something...
00:23:48  <FearTheCowboy>ok grab http://coapp.org/install and http://coapp.org/devtools again
00:24:07  <FearTheCowboy>( and
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00:44:03  <HamishC>hmm its still having some difficulty. Ill come back to it next week, should have some more packaging time then
00:45:38  <FearTheCowboy>ok
00:45:49  <FearTheCowboy>I'll be looking to see what is goin' wrong
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17:48:05  <FearTheCowboy>ender`
17:48:40  <FearTheCowboy>I've pushed up better versions of coapp ( http://coapp.org/install ) for you to try
17:58:27  * Scotisis no longer away : Gone for 19 hrs 56 mins 57 secs
18:04:02  <ender`>FearTheCowboy: ok, downloading
18:04:32  <Scotis>woah - perl has 4 different flavors!?
18:05:03  <ender|>huh?
18:05:20  <Scotis>vc10, 6, 7.1 and 8
18:05:34  <ender|>FearTheCowboy: good news - this one hung with the window open :)
18:05:47  <FearTheCowboy>the bootstrap window?
18:05:55  <ender|>yeah
18:05:56  <FearTheCowboy>hung, or slooowly working?
18:06:14  <FearTheCowboy>I have it keep that up until the installer UI is reay
18:06:16  <FearTheCowboy>ready
18:06:27  <Virmitio>Scotis: there's supposed to be 5, working on the vc9 flavor presently
18:06:34  <ender|>hmm
18:06:45  <Virmitio>not sure yet why it didn't push to the feed correctly
18:07:15  <ender|>this is what i got in debugview: http://p.0au.de/8545974a (started it just as the coapp installer was loading)
18:08:52  <FearTheCowboy>ender| => looking....
18:09:06  <ender|>oh, it's not hung
18:09:38  <ender|>just got CoApp Package Manager - 1.2 PRE-RC "This version is currently installed ("
18:09:54  <FearTheCowboy>wow, that was kinda sluggish, but at least it came up
18:10:29  <ender|>here's the entire debugview: http://p.0au.de/4f74b1eb
18:11:14  <ender|>hm, Ctrl+C doesn't copy the times?!
18:11:58  <ender|>ok, here's the log with times: http://p.0au.de/b13f1aa7
18:13:15  <ender|>...but the symlinks still poing to
18:14:09  <FearTheCowboy>that's uncool...
18:14:18  <FearTheCowboy>run coapp.service --stop
18:14:22  <FearTheCowboy>coapp.service --auto-install
18:15:06  <ender|>--stop works, --auto-install doesn't seem to do anything
18:16:29  <FearTheCowboy>it won't show anything.
18:16:34  <FearTheCowboy>where are the symlinks pointing now?
18:16:45  <ender|>unchanged
18:16:58  <ender|>(which is why i said it doesn't seem to do anything)
18:17:43  <ender|>(and this happens even if i run coapp.service from the .113 directory)
18:18:07  <FearTheCowboy>run the .113 version using coapp.service --interactive
18:18:17  <ender|>do i stop it first?
18:18:20  <FearTheCowboy>nmo
18:18:20  <FearTheCowboy>no
18:18:31  <FearTheCowboy>it'll kill the other one on its own
18:18:39  <ender|>ok, it's running
18:18:49  <FearTheCowboy>now check the symlinks
18:19:28  <ender|>still unchanged
18:19:30  <FearTheCowboy>!!!
18:19:58  <Virmitio>them be some aggressive symlinks
18:20:16  <FearTheCowboy>try coapp activate coapp.toolkit-
18:21:22  <ender|>that worked (after i ran coapp.exe from the .113 directory - the .8 version threw an exception)
18:21:37  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, the .8 one would.
18:22:07  <FearTheCowboy>well, that .8 version was pretty resilient. I'm gonna have to call in the holy handgrenade next time.
18:22:34  <FearTheCowboy>but now coapp works from the command line?
18:23:07  <ender|>yup
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18:24:58  <ender|>installing perl
18:25:20  <ender|>...failed
18:25:44  <ender|>http://p.0au.de/3855f24f
18:27:00  <FearTheCowboy>hmm. me too.
18:28:48  <FearTheCowboy>hmmm. odd bug on assembly install
18:31:27  <ender|>http://eternallybored.org/imgs/cats/P1030947.jpg
18:32:38  <saivert>yawn
18:36:17  <auroraeosrose>http://www.flickr.com/photos/auroraeosrose/6902420596/in/photostream/lightbox/ - must be sleepy cat day
18:37:14  <ender`>he was running around like crazy in the frontyard
18:37:14  <Virmitio>every day is a sleepy cat day (sometimes with brief doses of "spastic cat hour")
18:40:00  <auroraeosrose>hehe
18:40:10  <auroraeosrose>yeah mine has an angry bird green pig toy filled with catnip
18:40:13  <auroraeosrose>she lurves it
18:42:24  <FearTheCowboy>ooh. I think I found the problem with the perl pkg. This will solve another one too! :D
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21:58:47  <piscisaureus_>question: how do you guys suggest I should deal with build-time dependencies?
21:59:25  <piscisaureus_>I was trying to package up libv8 but it needs either "scons" or "gyp" to be built. And both scons and gyp need python.
22:00:26  <FearTheCowboy>are you talking in general, or how to do it with a coapp build?
22:00:43  <piscisaureus_>in the case of a coapp build
22:01:08  <piscisaureus_>In general these issues are solved by installing the build-time dependencies :-)
22:02:01  <FearTheCowboy>well, we're trying to get the dependent things built, so in your case, we'd need python, scons and gyp packgaes built, and then the ptk script for v8 could require scons or gpy and those would each require python
22:02:17  <FearTheCowboy>we've just gone thru this with perl, (which is needed to build openssl)
22:02:46  <FearTheCowboy>and we've just about got that working; Virmitio is going to fix up the package script, and I'm filling a hole in autopkg right now.
22:03:08  <piscisaureus_>ah, right. So I still need to exercise a little patience...
22:03:25  <FearTheCowboy>juuuuust a teency bit
22:03:43  <piscisaureus_>the website made good progress
22:05:35  <FearTheCowboy>it's using node.js :)
22:06:23  <vpovirk>yeah I need to work on python, but it has that issue with finding libraries :/
22:07:04  <piscisaureus_>FearTheCowboy: nice :_)
22:07:05  * vpovirkquit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:08:04  <piscisaureus_>FearTheCowboy: looks like you're running IIS though
22:08:08  <piscisaureus_>IISNode?
22:09:24  <FearTheCowboy>actually, the whole site is static; It rengenerates the content when its' checked into github
22:09:53  <FearTheCowboy>a notification comes from github, which kicks off a pull/generate/copy on the server
22:10:04  <piscisaureus_>ah, okay
22:10:05  <FearTheCowboy>It's using a heavily-modified fork of DocPad.
22:10:35  <piscisaureus_>lots of people seem to be reverting to the "generate static site" model
22:11:54  <piscisaureus_>Which is totally fine by my standards
22:11:57  <FearTheCowboy>me too
22:12:23  <FearTheCowboy>it makes it far easier to build websites that can handle volume :)
22:12:34  <piscisaureus_>yeah exactly
22:12:41  <piscisaureus_>no more drupal cache tweaking
22:13:13  <FearTheCowboy>:)
22:13:30  <piscisaureus_>it's also interesting to see that people are slowly reverting to semantic markup languages for their content (e.g. markdown)
22:14:01  <piscisaureus_>after years of demanding wysiwyg controls and CMSes
22:14:24  <FearTheCowboy>yeah, that's pretty cool. I took the gfm-markdown that was in docpad, and enhanced it so it would also do all that color syntax highlighing we have on the site. (it actually calls out to a pygments webservice for that)
22:14:55  <piscisaureus_>does gfm not do that?
22:15:07  <FearTheCowboy>not the javascript one
22:15:13  <piscisaureus_>oh
22:15:27  <piscisaureus_>On github you can just ```javascript these days
22:15:34  <FearTheCowboy>I implementd that too
22:15:46  <FearTheCowboy>so that my docpad handles those
22:16:17  <piscisaureus_>ah, cool
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22:18:15  <FearTheCowboy>So now my gfm processor handles all of gfm plus a few more things I added:
22:18:15  <FearTheCowboy>http://coapp.org/reference/garrett-flavored-markdown.html
22:18:40  <FearTheCowboy>from the time that the site is checked into github, it's about 15 seconds till it's live.
22:19:08  <FearTheCowboy>Still amazed how fast that runs, given that it has to go to the web for 150+ color syntax highlighted sections during generation
22:20:59  <piscisaureus_><shameless brag>node</>
22:21:16  <piscisaureus_>anyway, it would be nice to have a python package
22:21:31  <piscisaureus_>We have gyp-ified quite a lot of project
22:21:44  <FearTheCowboy>that's it exactly.
22:21:55  <piscisaureus_>and it's very easy to build those on windows (provided gyp and python are in place)
22:22:20  * mloskotquit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
22:22:21  <FearTheCowboy>I'm starting the last magical puzzle peice that will let us build python tomorrow.
22:22:50  <FearTheCowboy>(we need to be able to load dlls from side-by-side, without a manifest present in the exe )
22:23:09  <piscisaureus_>why do you want to use sxs?
22:23:26  <piscisaureus_>It has never given me anything but headache
22:23:38  <FearTheCowboy>ah, that's because you haven't spent years making it work :)
22:23:42  <FearTheCowboy>lol
22:23:44  <piscisaureus_>exactly
22:23:46  <piscisaureus_>:-)
22:23:50  <FearTheCowboy>I've fixed that.
22:24:00  <FearTheCowboy>all of coapp shared libraries are SxS
22:24:10  <piscisaureus_>for all the projects I work on now we link everything statically. And there I mean *everything*
22:24:23  <FearTheCowboy>well, there's some virtue in that too.
22:24:42  <FearTheCowboy>but sxs makes it possible to service dependencies reliably seperate from apps using them
22:24:55  <piscisaureus_>you can have good cross object optimizations with it
22:25:05  <FearTheCowboy>so we can update things like openssl without having to update the app using it.
22:25:09  <piscisaureus_>ah
22:25:35  <Virmitio>and also without breaking the app using it
22:25:39  <FearTheCowboy>yep
22:26:38  <FearTheCowboy>Virmitio -> http://fearthecowboy.com/stuff/2012-04-05-032551-1b5c0001.png
22:27:30  <piscisaureus_>Yeah the unix version of node doesn't like everything statically (and you can disable it where it does that), because unix administrators are typically like "OMG static linking, so I can't update libraries?"
22:27:30  <piscisaureus_>And the debian package maintainers will come and hacksaw everything apart anyway.
22:27:30  <piscisaureus_>But on windows sysadmins are generally not so concerned with that. The less DLLs, the less random errors.
22:27:37  <piscisaureus_>s/like/link
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22:28:37  <FearTheCowboy>the trouble is, it needs to be a lot easier to update libraries to close security defects
22:29:09  * mloskotquit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:29:16  <FearTheCowboy>and if it's much easier to link to a well-maintained openssl... you get security updates much faster
22:33:47  <piscisaureus_>yeah... that's what the unix sysadmins and debian package guys also say
22:33:49  <piscisaureus_>and they are right
22:34:08  <FearTheCowboy>there's nothing stopping you from using static libs with coapp tho'
22:34:25  <piscisaureus_>the problem is that on windows you have a lot of different compiler versions and incompatible ABIs
22:34:38  <piscisaureus_>especially when you happen to build your project with mingw
22:34:57  <piscisaureus_>(which is typically what you would start with when you want to run an OSS project on windows)
22:34:58  <FearTheCowboy>well, so we're supporting mutliple flavors
22:35:14  <piscisaureus_>yeah
22:35:17  <piscisaureus_>that needs to be done
22:35:22  <FearTheCowboy>so we're building it so that we can have the same package for vc6,7,8,9,10,11 and mings
22:35:24  <FearTheCowboy>mingw
22:35:46  <piscisaureus_>and mingw-w64
22:35:56  <FearTheCowboy>that too.
22:36:10  <piscisaureus_>cool
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22:36:47  <piscisaureus_>having that for components that have very stable APIs makes a lot of sense
22:36:51  <rrivera>i giggle when folks mention mingw and how VC isn't ABI compatible, when mingw is the hackjob here. :P
22:36:58  <piscisaureus_>e.g. openssl, zlib
22:37:37  <piscisaureus_>rrivera: well, I don't care, people want to use mingw nonetheless
22:37:41  <FearTheCowboy>yeah, we're trying to make sure that we provide as many flavors (and on both x64/x86) as possible
22:38:49  <piscisaureus_>rrivera: I guess that if msvc would properly support C99 then this would not be so much of a problem
22:38:55  <FearTheCowboy>LOL
22:39:01  <FearTheCowboy>don't get me started on C99!
22:39:02  <rrivera>Oh boy. That card.
22:39:13  <FearTheCowboy>do you why they don't support C99?
22:39:18  <piscisaureus_>tell me
22:39:21  <piscisaureus_>I don't
22:39:32  <piscisaureus_>the C++ compiler seems to be very modern
22:39:34  <FearTheCowboy>"Well, nobody uses C99 on Windows anyway."
22:39:41  <FearTheCowboy><BOOM> that's when my head exploded
22:39:48  <piscisaureus_>brahahahaha lol
22:40:09  <rrivera>the end goal is to get away from mingw crap and distribute pure VC stuff, so you should care btw
22:40:30  <rrivera>afaik, the mingw support is just a stepping stone to doing the Right Thing
22:40:37  <piscisaureus_>rrivera: yeah but probably you have to hack up a lot of projects
22:40:43  <rrivera>which we'll do :)
22:40:48  <piscisaureus_>and "fix" constructs like this
22:41:06  <piscisaureus_>int a = 4;
22:41:06  <piscisaureus_>somefunction();
22:41:06  <piscisaureus_>int b = 5;
22:41:06  <FearTheCowboy>well, mingw isn't going away, so we're gonna have to support it just the same for the foreseable future
22:41:13  <piscisaureus_>it's very easy but also a lot of work
22:41:37  <rrivera>but we don't want to encourage everyone just dump mingw packages on coapp right?
22:41:40  <rrivera>that's lazy
22:41:59  <piscisaureus_>well, you might not want that
22:42:08  <piscisaureus_>but you're at the grace of the upstream maintainers then
22:42:17  <FearTheCowboy>we're not going to get away from them, but the ideal is to move to vc10 and beyond
22:42:32  <piscisaureus_>rrivera: I mean, if they don't take your VC support patches, then you're kind of screwed
22:42:47  <piscisaureus_>and left with the burden of painful rebasing all the time
22:42:48  <rrivera>piscisaureus_: we'll try to fix mingw projects and maintain shallow forks for pure builds
22:43:10  <rrivera>piscisaureus_: and by we, i mean some maintainer ;p
22:44:53  <piscisaureus_>you need network effect. I would recommend you play nice until you've reached critical mass
22:45:08  <FearTheCowboy>Yeah, that's the plan.
22:45:14  <madewokherd>afaik there aren't any actual mingw packages yet
22:45:23  <FearTheCowboy>no, none yet.
22:45:34  <piscisaureus_>no git? :-)
22:45:44  <Virmitio>not yet
22:45:44  <FearTheCowboy>not yet.
22:46:41  <piscisaureus_>git would be a very nice litmus test
22:46:47  <piscisaureus_>but not high priority probably
22:46:49  <FearTheCowboy>indeed
22:46:50  <rrivera>for?
22:47:04  <madewokherd>whether we hate ourselves for doing this
22:47:08  <FearTheCowboy>lol
22:47:16  <piscisaureus_>whether your build system can handle, um, complex build processes
22:47:17  <piscisaureus_>yes
22:47:21  <Virmitio>madewokherd: among other things, yes
22:47:23  <rrivera>FearTheCowboy did OpenSSL, not sure we need any more tests to prove we're capable :P
22:47:40  <rrivera>and PHP
22:48:16  <FearTheCowboy>HamishC did Apache
22:48:16  <Virmitio>hey auroraeosrose, how's php going?
22:49:19  <piscisaureus_>Oh, I don't doubt that you guys/girls are capable
22:49:23  <rrivera>she's probably oof stabbing herself
22:49:43  <madewokherd>Virmitio: oh, hey, while you're around, is there something blocking libintl (like a test target) or have you just not looked at it yet?
22:49:45  <Virmitio>I can't say I'd blame her
22:50:01  <rrivera>lol
22:50:58  <Virmitio>madewokherd: wasn't paying attention, to be honest. Only got perl up because it helped with writing the forking doc
22:51:23  <madewokherd>ah
22:51:34  <madewokherd>(just asking so I know what I'll be working on tomorrow)
22:54:40  <madewokherd>wait I still don
22:54:42  <madewokherd>'t
22:55:25  <madewokherd>my choices are libintl tests, libiconv based on libintl, and libffi
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23:12:10  <Virmitio>madewokherd: did you put a repo for libintl up already?
23:12:19  <madewokherd>it's part of gettext
23:12:22  <Virmitio>ah
23:12:30  * Virmitiois being confused today
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